Cheap light boards? What's at the bottom end?

[Sayen]

First, I apologize for another console thread. I read the forum regularly, so I see what usually comes up. Most of us avoid the cheap category with good reason.

A local church is looking for a console, and asked for advice. Their budget is probably less than $500, and even that's high. They don't want a PC solution, so Chamsys and the like are out. Their music director sent me some links for what look like dj consoles, but I don't have any experience in that area. Looking at their setup, which is mostly low end LEDs and no dimming or real power capabilities, they need roughly 100 channels to start off. Any advice on low end consoles? Chauvet gear that doesn't blow up the first time it's used? Something reasonably volunteer friendly?

 

[JChenault]

As a maker of a PC product, I'm curious why they are not considering a PC solution. Could you share their reasons?

Thanks

 

[porkchop]

That price range kind of screams PC based to me. Find an older computer that no one is using (A common church donation in my experience), wipe it clean, and you'll have yourself a reasonably modern and well featured control deck.

If they're really married to the physical console you might be able to find a used console they can afford but it's probably going to be pretty old and poorly featured for more intelligent fixtures. If you go that route your selection is also going to be limited whatever is for sale. You could probably make it work on something like a Scene Setter ($~350) from Elation, but you'd have to spend a decent amount of time grouping fixtures and programming the submasters to make it all work. Also something like that would have pretty limited abilities to expand or changing the rig as time goes on.

 

[gafftaper]

$500 and they want to be able to control 100 channels "to start off" and PC is not an option. Can't be done. Tell them sorry but sometimes you have to pay to play. If they want to play with the big boys in that many LED channels, they have to budget appropriately to control it. Either up the budget significantly or deal with the fact that they are going to be stuck on a tiny console that won't do everything they want. I've used a Chauvet Obey 70 on a small church youth band room install with 4 LED's. It'll control 12 fixtures with up to 32 channels of data each. It's fine but it's not the kind of thing you want to use to make adjustments on the fly. You could pre-record like a dozen looks and play them back regularly. But none of those DJ products are really designed for how the church wants to use them. Plus as @porkchop said, they will be starting out with the console's capacity maxed out or close to it with any of the low end products. Want to expand? They will have to buy a new console too. The PC solutions are designed to work the way they want to work and in their price range, you just have to learn to deal with only using one fader at a time. I would suggest @JChenault's Plexus or maybe Enttec's DMXis (MagicQ is really rough on a beginner).

They don't know it, but what they really want is a Pathway Cognito, unfortunately it's about $3k over budget. But you get a ton of easy to use bang for your buck for that $3500.

Chauvet gear that doesn't blow up the first time it's used?

I have to say that's really unfair. Chauvet and Elation both get treated really unfairly around here at times. Yeah they aren't the top of the food chain but they are not the Chinese crap you see on Ebay. As I have ranted about in the past, we have a tendency to get rather elitist around here about certain brands and products. Chauvet makes a fine product at a certain price point.

 

[dbaxter]

I, too, would be interested in the bias against a PC based solution. For the number of channels you say you need, there's no way you'll find a console. From my and JChenault's point of view, the PC will be easier to run anyway.

 

[Sayen]

It's mostly arrogance on the part of the music director, who oversees apparently everything else. He's the sort who fired everyone when he came in, then hired people with less knowledge than himself so no one would argue with him. It's taken about a year for him to accept that I know anything about lighting, but he's dead set against a computer. We've gone rounds, and I've shown him the price lists and even some of the software I've run before. He dropped by my theater and saw what we can do, but is still convinced he knows more than all. This is a band leader who runs his own monitor mixer from stage. As in, he runs it while he's playing, full 24 channel mixer.

I'm just helping them out, it's not a paid job, so if he won't listen he won't listen. I ran an event for them a few months back off my laptop without any issues.

 

[Sayen]

I have to say that's really unfair. Chauvet and Elation both get treated really unfairly around here at times. Yeah they aren't the top of the food chain but they are not the Chinese crap you see on Ebay. As I have ranted about in the past, we have a tendency to get rather elitist around here about certain brands and products. Chauvet makes a fine product at a certain price point.

Fair enough! I like the pro lines for both companies. The Chauvet Colorado line is one of my favorite budget LEDs. But their DJ stuff hurts to work with. I called customer support once trying to figure out a dip switch operated light, and they had no records they even made the darn thing. Then there was the club that wanted help with their Chauvet movers, yikes! So, asking on the low end, that's about what I'd expect.

 

[Scenemaster60]

I've been doing some console shopping myself these days and will get on the bandwagon that there is nothing to be had in an independent console in your price range that will be even remotely volunteer friendly. From my research, I would agree with gafftaper that the Pathway Cognito is going to give you the most bang for your buck in an independent console. They are relatively new so finding one used will be rough. While some people rail against the ETC Smartfade consoles, the Smartfade ML may not be a bad place to look either. Also, since those have been around for a number of years, sometimes you can find a perfectly good one used when someone upgrades. They list at $2,900 and I see them around going for about $2,300-$2,400. I happen to know of a very slightly used one that a very reputable regional lighting company offered to me for $1,900 just yesterday.

 

[JD]

About the only thing you can get that's not PC based for under $500 is the Elation Scene Setter 48 although that only gives you 48 channels. Of course, the dimmers could be laid out to fit 48 with some doubling up.
It's not really a bad board. They hold up well. You don't get bells and whistles, but hey, it's only $400.

 

[Amiers]

About the only thing you can get that's not PC based for under $500 is the Elation Scene Setter 48 although that only gives you 48 channels. Of course, the dimmers could be laid out to fit 48 with some doubling up.
It's not really a bad board. They hold up well. You don't get bells and whistles, but hey, it's only $400.

We had the SS 48 in my current place before we started upgrading. Its not a bad board but like JD said its very minimal you would have to double if not triple some lights in order to fit everything. If anything I would refer the music director to this thread so he can see for himself what it will actually take to get a 100ch console for 500$. You may get lucky and he will change his mind :/

 

[derekleffew]

... A local church is looking for a console, and asked for advice. Their budget is probably less than $500, and even that's high. They don't want a PC solution, so Chamsys and the like are out. ...

I immediately thought of this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/threads/what-would-you-charge-for-a-1994-etc-impression-console.34043/ as it seems a used Express/Impression etc. might fit the bill. I went to usedlighting.com (to at random a used vendor) and Sorted consoles by price. The lowest price console that will do 100 channels is an Insight 2 offered at $1800.

If used is not an option, SmartFade, Cognito, perhaps the new Strand 250ML (haven't seen it in person), are as low as I would go. But I'd really prefer an Element.

 

[coldnorth57]

I am here to say that FREE pc softwear will get you more that a $500 lighting board will. I have been using Martin's PC based softwear latly and it is free and works very well.

 

[SanTai]

I have used a few pc solutions lately. A pc solution does not mean no physical in put. I tried a setup running lightfactory on a pc with a midi piano for flash input and a simple dmx board using dmx in for fader controled sub masters.

Worked quite well. The dmx input were a bit sluggish though.

It is doable on a budget. You can only be as picky as your budget allows you too be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[zmb]

I am here to say that FREE pc softwear will get you more that a $500 lighting board will. I have been using Martin's PC based softwear latly and it is free and works very well.

Keep in mind that you will still need to buy DMX hardware, which definitely isn't free. Either a USB box with XLR connectors or an ACN convert that is hooked into the building's data network and can be located remotely from the computer.

 

[MarfaLights]

I find myself in a very similar situation as Sayen. I've been asked to help our small town put together a lighting package for the small event center. We are a town of 2000. They have a total budget of $8000 and a small stage in a building built in the 40s that served as a USO. I use Chamsys and love it but no way would I put it in there. It will be mostly if not all LEDs with no movers. The needs are simple: be able to set some colors for a simple event with no changes; set some white light from the front for lectures, set up some sound-to-light chases for basic music events. Anything more, they can hire an op and rent a board. The board needs to be cheap and obviously simple to use by non-lighting people.

I've used the SS48 and could make it work, but I find the programming interface clunky and want something simpler looking. Any suggestions out there would be great.

 

[JChenault]

At the risk of being commercial, we recently installed Plexus in a church. One thing they liked was the ability to set up a virtual button panel where each button brought up a separate look. This makes it extremely simple for their day to day operations.

It does not do sound to light chases, ( indeed I am not aware of any console that does this well ) but if your LED fixtures support sound to light mode via the console, it can set the mode via the button panel.

 

[JD]

You know, if you don't mind some REAL clunky programing, and you are looking for single button scenes, then you could use something like an Obey 70 (Chauvet) which would run you under $200 and give you access to the first 384 DMX channels which obviously covers the first 100 you need.
Mind you, the board is designed more as a low-end mover board, each set of 32 channels is grouped in what they call a "fixture." Still, with enough time, you can independently assign the values to every channel. There are 8 scene buttons, and 30 banks of scenes that can be stored, for a total of 240 scenes. When you turn it on, the first 8 are loaded on the buttons, so it would be pretty easy to teach someone to turn it on and get some lights on stage.
It may be quite confusing for anyone to do in depth programing, but it might serve as a way to bridge the gap until you can get a real board, or convince your director to go the PC route. Once that is done, it should be easy to sell it on Ebay!

 

[RickR]

Are we talking 100 addresses or 100 fixtures? "Channel" is such an over used word these days!

I'll add to the list of small consoles the Jands StageCL: meant for LED only, I hear it can now do 24 fixtures/groups. $1800 ish. About the same as the Strand 250ML that I did get a chance to play with recently. (PM if you want details so we don't hijack the thread.)

I think one of the trade magazines is planning a "small console" review buyers guide. Somehow I doubt they'll cover DJ boards but you never know...

 

[James Feenstra]

I find myself in a very similar situation as Sayen. I've been asked to help our small town put together a lighting package for the small event center. We are a town of 2000. They have a total budget of $8000 and a small stage in a building built in the 40s that served as a USO. I use Chamsys and love it but no way would I put it in there. It will be mostly if not all LEDs with no movers. The needs are simple: be able to set some colors for a simple event with no changes; set some white light from the front for lectures, set up some sound-to-light chases for basic music events. Anything more, they can hire an op and rent a board. The board needs to be cheap and obviously simple to use by non-lighting people.

I've used the SS48 and could make it work, but I find the programming interface clunky and want something simpler looking. Any suggestions out there would be great.

Take a look at the StageCL;
http://jands.com/stage-cl/

Current beta software (free) allows for control of 24 independent fixtures, there's also a few substantial upgrades coming down the pipe as well!

Would be happy to arrange a demo if you're interested.

 

[MikeJ]

For the budget, a pc solution is the way to go. There are a lot of churches around me that use a lot of LED and conventional with the Elation control software and a 2 output usb to dmx box. Its not really on the fly friendly, but you can program dozens of looks in many categories, and play them back easily. Its pretty user friendly too. you can have one page that is 10 different general looks, eg. sermon, video, walkin, worship. etc, and set another page for 20 different band looks, and so on. No console can touch it for its price.

Also Elation and Chauvet both have their hit and miss products, and their "fresh off the boat screw-ups," but they both have uped their games in products, and customer service in the last few years. The DJ Products are just that, but the pro lines are getting very good.