Childrens musical sound design from

[JonasA]

I'll preface this by saying that I'm a stage manager and a lighting tech, and my sound knowledge is pretty limited... I can set up a PA, understand what I read and see, but I'm not a sound engineer/designer.

As part of the usual tech work for school, I've been asked to TD the primary school musical (Aladdin Jr.). So far lighting hasn't been a problem, but sound is of increasing concern to me, and I'm looking for some help with the sound design. Particularly mic'ing.

---

My plan was: 8 body mics on the leads/secondary characters. This also will cover most of the chorus stuff, as it's primary school theatre and the kids who are leads produce about 80% of the volume while singing. Supplementing this for general chorus/speaking characters will be 3 boundary mics on the edge of the apron. Upstage, 2 shotguns hung behind the pro arch. Band will be mic'ed/DI'ed as necessary, with their own foldbacks and then two more hung over the wings for the cast.

---

House stock is a SM57 and two nice shotguns (brand escapes me, but they have a nice pick-up over about 15'-20'. Also lying around are 6 terrible radio mics, including one AKG with headset and a Redback with headset, with four cheapo unbranded ones, and four shotgun mics of unknown (and thus probably unbranded) origin - all shocking. I'd rather hire/buy new ones than use these; I only mention them in case someone knows how to make them useful.

I'm looking to spend ~$2,000-$2,750 for a 7 day hire. Just to give you all a rough idea of budget (although I'm well aware of how wildly hire costs vary...).

Does any one have any thoughts/suggestions/criticism? Non-constructive criticism welcome given I've probably made some grave errors in this...

Other food for thought: Stage is raked hardwood on clean fill - I can't put anything under it, but it also doesn't budge, and footsteps on it aren't quiet. The director tells me that while they aren't tapping, the kids do shuffle a lot - is this going to be an issue with the boundaries? The cast are all quiet singers with the exception of half a dozen leads who I know can project. The rest range from quiet through to mouthing the words.


Thanks in advance. Apologies for my clear lack of knowledge... (PS: I've searched, I've read old threads; just wanted to run over the complete design.)

/Jonas

 

[museav]

My plan was: 8 body mics on the leads/secondary characters. This also will cover most of the chorus stuff, as it's primary school theatre and the kids who are leads produce about 80% of the volume while singing. Supplementing this for general chorus/speaking characters will be 3 boundary mics on the edge of the apron. Upstage, 2 shotguns hung behind the pro arch. Band will be mic'ed/DI'ed as necessary, with their own foldbacks and then two more hung over the wings for the cast.

Who is going to be mixing and what is their experience with similar situations? With multiple leads with individual mics and the mix of close and distant mics they are may have to deal with some significant level and muting operation. Combine that with multiple inputs for the band and multiple monitor mixes as well as the house mix and you are creating a situation that may not be desirable unless you have a system that supports it and operators that are comfortable with it. If your operators are not there yet then you may want to consider plenty of rehearsal time to help them get comfortable.

While I'm assuming the band monitors will have only the stage mics and the stage monitors only the band, what about feedback from the house speaker system? How much 'spill' is there on stage and with the multiple mics noted including both footlight and hanging mics, might that create a problem in terms of available gain before feedback?

If the leads create 80% of the overall volume then does that mean they'd also be about 80% of what shotgun and boundary mics pick up? If so then how are you going to address summation and phasing between the leads' mics and the area mics?

How big is your stage? Would the three boundary mics and two shotguns follow the 3:1 rule where the distance between microphones is at least 3 times the distance between the microphone and source? Do you need three boundary mics and two shotgun microphones or might you be better off with fewer area mics?

 

[derekleffew]

... (PS: I've searched, I've read old threads; just wanted to run over the complete design.) ...

Did you see this one? http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/sound-music-intercom/28886-young-singers-how-mic.html

 

[Ric]

Hi Jonas,
Your design may or may not be succesful but it will very much depend on the location of your band in relation to the performers.
It's highly likely that during songs you'll be picking up more music through your boundary mics and shotguns, than you will singers/performers.
In my experience that path of stage micing is unuseable for musicals. It has moderate success for plays, but never gives the result that people expect due to the distance of the performers from the microphones. Close micing perfomers, whether radio mics on them or spot mics that they walk up to, is the only way to get a good result for most of these musicals.

For all musicals I do here the band are always too loud, so they don't get fold back! The only person who needs to hear the whole band and performers is the musical director/conductor. Foldback for your cast may not give you the result you want, as often kids will get quieter as soon as they can hear their voice coming through the speakers. I use foldback for cast only to give them critical musical elements in order to keep them on pitch and in time. Usually piano & snare drum are enough. Anything more just creates an ever increasing volume battle.

If you haven't already done so get a script, create a mic plot, and work out how many mics for performers you really need to hire, and have at least one spare !
Focus your hire money on making sure the kids voices are heard and you'll have a good result.

Good luck !

 

[gcpsoundlight]

Hi Jonas. If you need a hand give me a call, if you don't have my number FB works!

Gerard.

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks Gerard, you're an all star. That's the CB spirit in action!

 

[JonasA]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all the feedback. To answer some questions:

Brad: It'll be a student handling mixing, but he's trained for musicals (we've actually never let him handle bands - that's the other sound tech's job!). We're definitely looking at a much longer in-theatre rehearsal period than usual given the technical complexity of the show (we're also lifting the standard on lighting), and I'm pretty confident he'll be able to handle it. The house speaker system was terrifically designed and has never given us feedback, and has minimal spill back onto the stage. We've made extensive use of various mics on the edge of the stage as well as handheld, body mics... everything, really, and it's never been a problem.

You make a good point about leads providing most of the noise to both sets of mics - something I hadn't considered before. Phasing in particular is something we've had problems with in the past and unfortunately I lack the knowledge to iron it out (our last good sound tech finished at the school last year, and as you can see, there's a bit of a void.) The stage itself is big enough to support five mics at a 3:1 ratio as it's exceedingly wide and of average depth, but considering the useable acting area and where the mics will be hung... the idea of cutting a few area mics sounds wise.

derekleffew: No, I hadn't seen that thread, but thank you very much for the link! Much appreciated, especially with regards to usefulness of Crowns/PZMs.

Ric: Band positioning is a subject of great debate between the director and myself (interestingly, the MD doesn't care.). I've seen a few shows in the Cultural Centre, and I've heard what you're talking about with loud bands. Thanks very much for the idea of piano/snare only in the cast foldback; I like it!

Gerard: Cheers! Your post actually reminded me to go look at the production budget, and made me realise that we could afford to hire two techs for the show and I wouldn't have to worry about it. No prizes for guessing who's on top of my contacts list for that.