contact cleaner for 65Q sockets

[artdeco18]

I have a bunch of Altman fresnels and some have asbestos wiring still installed. I have a bunch of orphan 360 lamp holders in our graveyard and so rather than simply wrap the asbestos (which I have been told is actually a solution) I decided to replace the wiring with the cables from the ERS. So we disassembled them, gave everything a good cleaning, removed rust and repainted with hi temp paint.

From following the previous threads on these instruments, the condition of the sockets is important, but these can be rehabbed using McMaster-Carr contact cleaner and lubricant. Because the centre contacts have pitting on them, I thought it a good idea to work on the sockets while they were out of the instruments... So I went online searching for the M-C product... only to discover that they won't ship to Canada and I haven't been able to find a Canadian distributor.

Does anyone have any suggestions on an alternative that would be available in canada? I have found some stuff mad by MG Chemicals called Nu-trol Control Cleaner and it is actually available locally. Rather than assume, I thought I would ask... I'd rather do this right the first time than have a problem with them later and have to do it again...

 

[avkid]

Can you get Caig Labs products locally?
Home of DeoxIT® and HAND-E-GLOVE® - CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

 

[artdeco18]

Can you get Caig Labs products locally?
Home of DeoxIT® and HAND-E-GLOVE® - CAIG Laboratories, Inc.

I did a Barney of Canadian sites and turned up an electronics forum that suggested that the Source (aka Radio Shack) carries it here, two other posters though commented that they Nu-trol product was their preferred cleaner and a lot cheaper... so I'll do some more research.

thanks for the suggestion.

 

[ship]

A few questions given you read what I wrote on the contact cleaner with lubricant and in general posts on the lamp socket type. I don't think you completely understand what was posted and should read again. No problem, you have a good intent but please stop what you are doing and learn more again now that perhaps another reading of what you learned is better for what you intend to do.

1) If second reading of where you got the lubricant, it would tell you that if spring tension is good, and a silicone fiber wheel Dremmel tool has mostly cleaned up the lamp socket center plate, a bit if pitting isn’t overall a bad thing in surface contact area being sufficient overall. I’m told that Craig DeOxident with Copper filler (believe it was) would also help with this filling the gaps. Never tried it and don’t put too much on.

2) No, wrapping the asbestos with something isn’t a solution.

3) Re-Painted stuff that wasn’t painted and even rusted? Suspect you are talking about steel pentium plates and or fixtures as the lamp sockets shouldn’t be painted or should rust. If rusted more cleaning with brass wire wheels and the above silicone fiber wheels is needed with what ever coating you can coat the bright work with that is sufficient for the temperature. Won’t need the plates from Leko to Fresnel, but good if that’s the case that you saved them. Hope you didn’t paint your lamp sockets.

4) I hope your removal of these ERS lamp sockets included proper removal of the wiring and not just wrapping them in something. This much less ‘AKA’ Asbestos, wrapping the asbestos in something thus moving it about in fibers now getting air born. Not a good idea to be handling the old wiring in wrapping them.

5) The pad under such fixtures is also normally asbestos and even if it wasn’t, is probably needing replacement. Much less such fixtures normally are not grounded and if doing work on them you should also be grounding them properly.

6) The contact cleaner is a cleaner for work done, and mostly a coating for the fresh bright work and not persay a cleaner that magically replaces work on resurfacing an electrical contact.

7) Cleaners don’t do more than freshen up bright work persay - they won’t clear away carbon or arched contact material in magically getting back to a new lamp socket with a base that will conduct as if new. At times it takes grinding away at arched material like lead burned into a lamp socket which is now carbon and a lump that as per carbon prevents good contact to the plate. Could take all sorts of Dremmel wheels to remove it and careful work so as not to dig into the plate - yet remove the carbon or burned in lead from the center pin of some bad lamp contact.

While I have a roughly 90% ratio in saving this type of lamp socket - this including me in doing new wiring, re-tapping the screw threads for attachment screws, adding new wiring screws with lock washers, and resurfacing the plates the wiring /ring terminals is attached to, as with adding new fiber plates under the lamp socket, I do a lot of work to each. Not thinking you are understanding completely the process I described in resurfacing such lamp sockets.

90% saved amoungst a few hundred I have worked on, this much less some brands of socket don’t allow the terminal screws to be removed thus brass wire wheeling as best possible and the electrical contact cleaner after words, but silicone fiber wheel cleaning where at best possible also. High Temperature ring terminal in the case of a screw that won’t come out that is cut into a fork terminal instead. Etc. about such details in never using old wiring even on a c.1911 or before carbon arc spotlight TBA on my project list. No asbestos will be left or ever used. I would recommend you re-read where you got all your fixing notes from and question the source of the “wrapping of the asbestos” in if these ERS sockets with wrapped whips have that... someone has done a disservice to you and you don’t have something suitable as replacement sockets even if the contact cleaner did the work.

Start over and re-read posts.

 

[artdeco18]

Thanks for the post ship. I keep forgetting that brevity is the soul of wit and that in my old age I don't communicate well as maybe I once did. I found the recent thread on rehabbing the instrument with a google search. That is how I found the CB site in the first place. That thread mentioned a previous thread regarding the sockets, but I could not find it, which is why I haven't read that yet. The point is moot though because I actually figured out from the information on the current thread that the sockets could be maintained. It didn't say so specifically but I also figured out to use a Dremmel tool to gently loosen up the crud on the centre posts. The thread did mention problems with sticky springs and lubricating the spring was recommended. That is a lot easier to do when the socket is out of the instrument, but only if you have the lube. The McMaster-Carr product was what you recommend but is not available in Canada and they will not ship to Canada. I haven't bought anything yet because I was asking for alternatives before I made a decision. The rest of the post was superfluous information and should have been omitted.

However, I mentioned the process information, because this isn't a single issue thing such as trying to free up a sticky socket spring. These are all old fresnels but "new to us" and I don't know their history at all other than that they were sitting in a garage for a long time. I know that it is going to save a lot of grief later to take them apart to clean, inspect and maintain them before we put them up. If nothing else, I'll sleep better knowing what is up in our grid here.

The asbestos leads on many of them were obvious issues that needed to be addressed, but taking them apart allowed me to discover all sorts of other interesting things about them. Chief among them was that all but one of them was missing the socket insulator. Another common issue was that many of the leads had been attached to the sockets by wrapping rather than with a ring connector.

About the asbestos leads. A local theatre electrician told me to wrap them with electrical tape and apparently this was an early solution to the issue because I've seen a lot of lights over the years (including three of this bunch) with asbestos leads wrapped with electrical tape. There are 15 of these and 8 have asbestos leads and replacing them was therefore part of the process. I did find a U.S. source for new leads but at $18 per instrument (without the fiberglass sheath) that wasn't a very cost effective solution. However, I did have a box full of orphan Altman 360 lamp caps that someone had given us about couple of years ago. They had been sitting in a cupboard here because I hate throwing parts away. They had hi temp wires that were in good condition and fiberglass sheathing attached, so I removed them from the caps, put hi temp ring connectors on them and will use them for replacements on the fresnels. The ring connectors were under $10 total.

The socket insulators are a little different proposition. Production Advantage has them available for under $2 but won't ship to Canada for an order under $1000... Another source in the US has them available as well... but the cost of shipping is horrific. That is simply a sourcing issue though. I know the part I need, I just need to find the part in Canada at a reasonable price. That is different that the issue with the cleaner/lube. That product isn't available to me so I was looking for an alternative that was.

So I have indeed stopped what we are doing until I can obtain the insulators and an alternative to the lube.

 

[Les]

Sounds like you're on the right track now! Good thinking on reusing those 360Q leads. They should carry the same rating as modern 65Q leads as well. Keep those caps or throw them on eBay. A lot of people have 360Q's that are missing a cap and would much rather buy an inexpensive used cap and put on their own socket/leads rather than buy the brand new one for around $60US. I know I would.

Good find regarding those isolation pads! That surely saved you a future dead-short. About parts, have you contacted Altman directly? I'd imagine that they'd be more than happy to help you locate a local vendor (or at lease one who doesn't have to ship across the border).

 

[ship]

Could feed McMaster Carr part numbers on alternate materials that I use to replace the asbestos pads, but that won't help. Instead perhaps look towards electronics suppliers or Grainger amongst other general industrial suppliers in Canada. Even electrical suppliers.

Most new lamp sockets come with a 1/16" thick silicone pad under them. The same type of silicone that would be used on a circuit board. Might be an idea there in just putting blank circuit board material under your lamp socket. Another option is the rock Mica - you can buy it in sheets of the same thickness. Further is what's called in the electrical industry "fish paper" - though I'm not sure about it's maximum operating temperature. Most of what I use is ceramic fiber heat shield material in sheets or rolls. The ceramic fibers are bonded with stuff like plaster and other things and can be flexible like an asbestos tape or solid in sheet kind of like what you would use for ceramic tile wall backer board - only thinner. All sorts of materials can be used (gave away my home edition of McMaster and yet to get my new copy in getting another one home yet but,) if something non-conductive say 1/16" thick is rated for at least 200C or 450F - it should work fine to block any short as a pad under the lamp socket.

Side note, when using many of the above asbestos looking materials, I take a pen and write on them "not asbestos." This so the next person working on the fixture knows not to worry about seeing the asbestos look like pad in use.

Good to hear I misunderstood your intent. No still on the electrical tape, believe it's common maximum operating temperature is like 75C - so it like does what once inside a lighting fixture? Remember the time I tried using Fiber tape inside a light.... somked up a storm in smolder fire. Never old in age, we often just take longer to collect up our thoughts sufficient that others younger might understand sufficiently. Remember like rule 8 of the tech bible: "If you think the TD is wrong, you must have mis-understood him." Or something like that. "Brevity is the soul of wit" - thus we are both witless, or we intend to communicate complete thoughts and if mis-understood can than clarify. This as opposed to how hard will it have been to make your post brief and get a good response to it? Did good and now are refining what is needed.

On the wiring harnesses pre-cut and store bought... how much does a 250' or a 500' spool of just plain white SF-2, 16ga wire cost thru your electrical or wiring supplier? A can of black and a can of green high temp. spray paint to without having to make it entirely the color - just sufficient to be clear what color the wire is and you now have lots of high temp. wire on demand. Production Advantage don't ship... lots of on-line theatrical suppliers like TMB, Creative Stage Lighting, TechniLux, heck, even RoseBrand, Bulbtronics etc. and specifically etc. probably have shipping issues figured out across boarders. Kind of surprised that there is problems in shipping thru Canada thru this supplier, but probably just a question of finding one able to do so. This if you cannot get the SF-2 wire thru your local electrial supplier, thatrical supplier or wiring supplier by spool length. Common product and should be easy enough to get with some leg work in asking. Probably the same suppliers you can get say Scotch #69 Fiberglass electrical tape, from or the high temperature ring terminals from, will also be able to solve most of your other problems.

Don't forget to ground the fixtures if doing all this work. Ground wire to the plate the lamp socket is mounted on and run all thru the same cord gripped hole in leaving the fixture. Fiberglass over wire sleeving for the conductors as with the above common types of sources is often also available thru heat shrink suppliers. More or less just a bit of leg work and I'm sure everything you could possibly need is available thru local suppliers. Might try also contacting say 3M for who they recommend to supply the tape, Carol or General Wire for who they recommend to supply the heat wire, and amongst many sources, say Pandiut for the ring terminals in loal suppliers at very least. Often on a website, just type in your zip code for a supplier or many. Reverce track perhaps what you need as for supplier.

Old school P-28s lamp sockets - even if completely re-surfaced by me with a few hundred in experience in doing so might be really valuable in that even Altman doesn't sell that style any longer. Nobody makes that lamp socket any longer. On the other hand, a market for "used lamp socket" in general even if quality resurfaced wouldn't have a big market. This beyond the "as" is market in there is a lot of the sockets that are beyond fixing. Old school P-28s sockets.. big problem in getting - think I might if I put some parts together field like one or two even. On the other hand the G-22 socket from the same period, lots of them and even know of a lamp that will work with them if you jack up the lamp socket. Also useless info. Save them old parts though even broken parts - good idea. Sometimes you will run across something electrically too pitted that can be installed into a socket with a bad porcelain with some work. (Granted this old school lamp socket saving is all non-UL listed work talked about.)