Control/Dimming Control Techniques

[jsusfrk100]

I was randomly thinking of new ways to control lighting, and thought wouldn't it be cool to synchronize L.E.D. pars to a kick drum using DMX? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[DuckJordan]

Already been done,I know of several consoles that support syncing movements with sound. Not to mention sync audio cues with lighting cues through MIDI.

 

[derekleffew]

Didn't we once have a discussion of using a WII remote, or the PlayStation EyeCamera technology, so dancers could control their own lighting?

I can talk to my TV, "Hi TV, channel up." "Cancel." It also supports gestures, but not very dependably, and I get tired of waving at the blasted thing like a fool.

I'm waiting for a lighting console that can be controlled via brain waves. "Sit down and relax, Mr. LD, just let me attach these electrodes to your temples..."


For something more presently feasible, see this video in this post: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/26310-linkin-park-lx-foh.html#post232695 .

 

[Cooperhodges]

I use Luminair, an iOS app, for iPad to control lights in a performing arts center I work for. I personally like my faders on our ETC SmartFade, but the iPad app is great for patching and pointing lights instead of having to go back to the board.

I've actually tried out what I call "live spectrum lighting". We tried out a couple of ETC Selador D60's and hooked them up to my iMac using MIDI and had them changing colors with the beat of the music. A few years ago, we used choir mics hanging from our catwalk to use as a music track, and had the 100+ ETC Source Four ParNels, which we use for audience lights, "dancing" as well. My dream is to do that for one of the concerts we have, and let the band have fun with it. Haven't gotten around to it yet, but there's a ton of possibilities out there.

 

[essentials]

Lighting Control Future

[Mod. note: This post moved here from another location.]

There is a fair chance that my collegues and I might raise enough funds to start R&D of a top-end entertainment systems (lighting, media and stage technology) control station from scratch. Why would we do such a stupidity? There is great, complex and highly functional GrandMA2 for stadium concerts, neat and friendly Eos for theatre, there is Strand with their Palette, PRG and their Virtuoso... Well, the thing is that all of them are based on principles that are literally hundred years old - it all comes down to legacy of lever-controlled lights. Current cue fades into pending cue, submaster is brought up and then overriden by another submaster, effect is started and runs in cycles. Jands Vista is so far the only control product that introduced something new - timeline editing, which we know from audio multitrack editors, are familiar with and yet scared when this flashy modern thinking intrudes and changes thinking and workflow we were taught by our grandfathers.

Enough mourningm let´s jump to my question. Forget everything that makes you know something is impossible and free your imagination. As a Lighting Designer, Programmer, Board Op, Projectionist etc. what would YOU like your work-tool be capable of? Both in terms of functionality and UI.

How does your personal future of lighting and media look like?

 

[chausman]

Re: Lighting Control Future

One thing that I think would be interesting, would be a solution similar to GAM's Plexis, would be programming based on an fixtures physical location within a venue or on stage, not a channel/dimmer/circuit. Also designing based on how the stage actually looked, not based on a channel being at a certain percentage, which then equated to intensity on stage.

Which...after typing sounds like a good way to never have to do any thought to design/run a show...

 

[millamber]

Re: Lighting Control Future

Check out my alma mater's submission for the ETC giveaway. Using pixel mapping to track a dancer across stage.

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[JChenault]

Re: Lighting Control Future

This is a topic that I have given a lot of thought. Here are the things in our product ( GAM Plexus ) that are somewhat unique.

• Embrace a Magic Sheet. Rows and columns for display make it hard to tell what is going on. Let me set up the display to mimic my magic sheet.
• GUI interface. Point and click is easier than a command line interface for new users. Command line interface can be faster for experienced users for some things. Give me both, not just a command line interface.
• Give me easy ways to control groups of fixtures after the cue is written. Let me be able to just grab a 'group' and adjust the live look on stage up or down from a cue. But still let me have intensities at different levels in the group.
• Give me the ability to set times and delays easily for a cue. Don't make me deal with part cues - give me an easier way.
• Let me call my fixtures by whatever name I want to, not just a number.
• Give me an easy and flexible way to do dark moves ( move in black or whatever ) without having to do the kludge of mark cues.

Some of the things we don't do but are working on:

• Give me a way to adjust times the way I want to. Let me take all of the times in a cue and increase them by one count. Let me take times from multiple cues and set them to some level, or increment / decrement them.
• Same thing for intensities. Let me be able to go into my system and say 'For cues 20 thru 80, take the cyc up 10 points from whatever it is.
• Give me really good and easy ways to select and find my fixtures in my cues. Big spreadsheets are less than wonderful.
• Give me a way to interact with the console via voice so I never have to look down away from the stage. ( assuming you don't have a board op here)

And some things that we have talked about but really don't know how to do yet - or if they make sense.

• Fix the color problem. Make it easy to pick colors, and have colors match from fixture to fixture between manufactures - and over time.
• There must be an easier way to focus and handle movers. Maybe a kinect or wii.
• How about an interactive magic sheet where we show you where on stage the mover is pointing and what it is doing.
• give me the ability to have a group of 'Red' lights - where the definition of Red is based on the current gel string or RGB or CMY color selected.

For those really interested in this, try to get to LDI and listen to Rob Halliday talk. Rob is a programmer who has done a lot of thinking about what features he could use to make his job easier. Some of the items above are a crib from my notes on his talks. [Note by DL: Link to discussion about Rob's 2010 presentation.]

That's from the top of my head. I would be fascinated to hear what others think. The art of console design has (IMHO) been very stagnant for the past 30 years (ever since the original Strand-Century Light Palette) with the exception of Jands Vista and (I would like to suggest) Plexus. (Not sure how I fit the rock and roll consoles in there like Hog and MA--I have not thought enough about how they think about the world.)

 

[cbrandt]

Re: Lighting Control Future

I always want to be able to customize my interface. Let me use the same software, but use whatever interface makes the most sense for what I'm doing. That includes hardware as well as software. There are piles of cheap and useful midi, osc, and dmx interfaces out there, why can't I use any/all of them? That dovetails into digital labelling. If my board knows what a fader or button is/does, my hardware interface should as well, and should self label. If I've got 10 faders, and 100 pages, I shouldn't need 100 pieces of tape to keep them all straight.

 

[SamUpdike]

Re: Lighting Control Future

I think a voice control is something that could be very interesting for a console. You'll still need a programmer for more advanced features on most consoles, but imagine a world where the designer just says "Channel 1 thru 5 at full, record cue one" and the console listens to you and just does it.

 

[express]

Re: Lighting Control Future

Sorta a nit picky thing, but one that I know has come up here in the past and one thing I wish I could have probably more often then anything else...

If/And Macros.

 

[JChenault]

Re: Lighting Control Future

Sorta a nit picky thing, but one that I know has come up here in the past and one thing I wish I could have probably more often then anything else...

If/And Macros.

I'm confused

The traditional definition of a macro in this context is to record then replay a list of button pushes. If/And implies a scripting language. (by the way I believe the current strand product supports scripting languages).

Do you reall want a scripting language, or am I not understanding?

 

[express]

Re: Lighting Control Future

If/Else... take your pick.

And yes, it is a bit out of the traditional context of a macro, yet something I think would be helpful none-the-less. So maybe not actually a macro, but something along the lines of one which can utilize the if/else statement.

 

[essentials]

Re: Lighting Control Future

give me the ability to have a group of 'Red' lights - where the definition of Red is based on the current gel string or RGB or CMY color selected.

I don't understand. What do you mean by this?

That dovetails into digital labelling. If my board knows what a fader or button is/does, my hardware interface should as well, and should self label. If I've got 10 faders, and 100 pages, I shouldn't need 100 pieces of tape to keep them all straight.

So... you are looking for something like ETC's faderwing, right?

I think a voice control is something that could be very interesting for a console.

While this might be fun when one talks with his iPhone, full and thoughrough semantic and contextual recognition of any language is definitely not there yet. It would be a great thing though.

If/Else macros

GrandMA2 has If statement and you can always reach Else with another If with negated condition.


I personally do entertain Rob Halliday's suggestions on building blocks. However, actual implementation would be very tricky - you either drown a programmer with bunch of new filters he would have to learn, lots of annoying pop-ups asking wheter and how would he like to store his groupings, or you have to come up with seriously well-thought engine that would create and organize them without storing too much and lay them in an intuitive way.

Another interesting topic is interactive 3D model as a way to make life easier when dealing with moving lights. Focus position changing problem, arched path on live move, etc.

 

[derekleffew]

Re: Lighting Control Future

give me the ability to have a group of 'Red' lights - where the definition of Red is based on the current gel string or RGB or CMY color selected.

I don't understand. What do you mean by this?

Most modern consoles have a method to accomplish this. Although the syntax varies greatly, it's often something like [Active]['Red' Palette] selects all of the appropriate units into the programmer, where one can then change the color, intensity, or whatever.

 

[JChenault]

Re: Lighting Control Future

Most modern consoles have a method to accomplish this. Although the syntax varies greatly, it's often something like [Active]['Red' Palette] selects all of the appropriate units into the programmer, where one can then change the color, intensity, or whatever.

If I am understanding what your are saying, this is not what I mean. ( and I am channeling for Rob Halliday and Stan Pressner here. I have talked to both of them, but I am not sure I believe in what they are asking for ).

Let's say I have a rig with a lot of moving lights, and some conventional lights. I would like a group that would be the 'Blue' lights. Now it could be blue because it has a L201 gel in it, or it could be an LED fixture that looks mostly blue, or it could have a scroler which has one of 6 colors that seem 'Bluish' We are not talking about picking from a preset palette of 'Night-time blue' - we are talking about the computer being smart enough to understand the idea of what 'Blue' means - and knowing enough about the current state of the rig to select those lights which are putting 'Blue' on the stage.

A similar desire would be to have a group automagically created for 'Downstage lights'. The membership of a moving light in this group would change as it is pointed to various places on the stage. ( again - don't try to do this focus with a preset focus, as there is no single 'Downstage ' focus - AND I want to be able to just put a light down center without having to write a preset focus.

 

[JChenault]

Re: Lighting Control Future

I think a voice control is something that could be very interesting for a console.
[\quote]

While this might be fun when one talks with his iPhone, full and thoughrough semantic and contextual recognition of any language is definitely not there yet. It would be a great thing though.

But you don't need full semantic analysis for this task. I believe you could make a limited, but powerful grammar to adjust levels, record cues, and perhaps select colors. I've been reading the Nuance documents but am having trouble groking how to set up the grammer.

building blocks[/URL]. However, actual implementation would be very tricky - you either drown a programmer with bunch of new filters he would have to learn, lots of annoying pop-ups asking wheter and how would he like to store his groupings, or you have to come up with seriously well-thought engine that would create and organize them without storing too much and lay them in an intuitive way.

I don't like Rob's suggested implemtation, but I do embrace his idea of make easy ways to adjust the look of things on stage later using groups that interact appropriately. We worked hard to get that feature into Plexus ( optional LTP groups where the sub faders have levels, and a group can contain other groups). We have found that that methodology works very well to easily tweak the look of things later..

 

[derekleffew]

Re: Lighting Control Future

( and I am channeling for Rob Halliday and Stan Pressner here. I have talked to both of them, but I am not sure I believe in what they are asking for )...

Yeah...I'm not sure I believe in that either. I've seen enough sci-fi stories to know what happens when one relinquishes too much control to robots.

AND I want to be able to just put a light down center without having to write a preset focus.

Hence the reason automated/moving lights should never be called "intelligent" lights. HOW is the light supposed to figure out, on its own by itself, where "down center" is? A few hours ago, it was resting comfortably in its roadcase on a truck from PRG. Then some surly, burly men in black yanked it out, slapped clamps on it, probably dropped it on its nose once or twice, hung it on a truss, and flew it 30' in the air. It's the perfect stagehand/automaton--it will do exactly as it's told, every time, but not an iota more, or less.

"I don't want intelligent lights; I want obedient lights. I'll do all the thinking, thank you very much."

 

[chausman]

Re: Lighting Control Future

Hence the reason automated/moving lights should never be called "intelligent" lights. HOW is the light supposed to figure out, on its own by itself, where "down center" is? A few hours ago, it was resting comfortably in its roadcase on a truck from PRG. Then some surly, burly men in black yanked it out, slapped clamps on it, probably dropped it on its nose once or twice, hung it on a truss, and flew it 30' in the air. It's the perfect stagehand/automaton--it will do exactly as it's told, every time, but not an iota more, or less.

You can't expect it to know where it's at instantly, but you'd probably want to have some way to visualize the space, so you'd have a way to mark what you considered "Downstage". That same system could be used to tell the console where certain locations are for each fixture, and where and how the fixture was hung.

 

[essentials]

Re: Lighting Control Future

But you don't need full semantic analysis for this task. I believe you could make a limited, but powerful grammar to adjust levels, record cues, and perhaps select colors. I've been reading the Nuance documents but am having trouble groking how to set up the grammer.

How is learning a spoken constructed language different than learning typed constructed language?