"Crossroads LED" for Source Four (HPL replacement)?

sk8rsdad

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A few observations. They reference a Source Four EA, which would be a PAR replacement. Not surprising since the lensing required to behave like an ellipsoidal isn't there. It's either a 14 degree or 24 degree LED wash fixture.

There's some pretty wonky math going on in their marketing literature. They claim 115 lm/W which would be about 4 times as efficient as an HPL 575. In the same literature they claim they are 600 times more efficient. There's some pretty creative math going on. They also claim a maximum of 9700 lm which is about 2/3 of an HPL 575. Most curious.
 

DELO72

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Aug 8, 2007
Location
New Hampshire
This article and post are over 2 years old. Since no one has heard of this item on the market since that time, we can all assume this did not perform as promoted.....
 

JCBigler

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Jun 27, 2014
Location
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Hello friends,

Though I am a brand new member to Control Booth, you can find a lengthy post history by me, under my real name at The Pro Sound Web: Live Audio Board, The Sound Forums Network, the Theatre Sound Listserv, and under my user name JCBigler at The Avid Pro Audio Community.

I am also the house sound technician at the Tulsa Performing Arts Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

I believe to date, that we are the only facility to purchase any quantity of the Crossroads LED retrofit kits for the ETC Pars, and we also have a sizable number of their work light product (the Altman retrofit kit). I can not divulge all of the details as we still have business pending with Crossroads LED, and there are some internal personnel matters at play here. I would not call them vaporware as I have several pallets of product that I can put my hands on in a matter of seconds. I can, however, say that the statement
we can all assume this did not perform as promoted.....
is an accurate description of their product line. Unfortunately, we have spent a lot of money on products that we can not use, did not perform as required, and in some cases actually caught fire during the install process. We were basically sold several pallets of snake oil.

I would recommend that anyone who is considering the Crossroads LED theatrical units find another supplier. If your facility is considering them, or has purchased product, feel free to PM and we can talk in more detail
 

ship

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Illinois
Still an interesting "thing" and thanks for the discussion. Wonder about ETC's feelings on such a seemingly modified fixture and their UL listing (or they probably should be Mumm about it for now legally).

In adding to the above, they mention beam spreads but don't specify which lenses the LED retrofit works best with. And I would think most auto shows given fixture heights would be 750w if used and wanting to pop so it's more of a stage/studio upgrade. Noting the different color temp's available from the listing not mentioned in discussion also in adding to dimmer curve.

Long post short... Frequently I see shows leaving without requesting spare lamps needed for the lighting gear. ALL LED shows don't bother me at all as the spare lamp buyer in having a huge backlog of lamps to inspect or log in/out on the computer. Artistically.... I think there is a way to go yet, but over the last 15 years in constantly seeing the newest and best - they are coming along.

If as also not mentioned you can first get a energy savings rebate from going HPL lamp over what you were, than get a second one by installing a LED retrofit to the fixtures you already invested in, that's not a bad thing for a venu for fixtures say that don't need to dim. I could think of some retail stores or amusement parks that use the S-4 PAR fixture that might be interested in such a thing as long as they can dial in the color temp.

Interesting in reading page two... sorry about being on the leading edge... where I work we live with that frequently in dingle turds wanted and popular than no longer once used, and glad to see that later part for me not going further into looking into it.
 
Last edited:

bstefanoff

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Jan 4, 2017
Location
tulsa, OK
Hello friends,

Though I am a brand new member to Control Booth, you can find a lengthy post history by me, under my real name at The Pro Sound Web: Live Audio Board, The Sound Forums Network, the Theatre Sound Listserv, and under my user name JCBigler at The Avid Pro Audio Community.

I am also the house sound technician at the Tulsa Performing Arts Center in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

I believe to date, that we are the only facility to purchase any quantity of the Crossroads LED retrofit kits for the ETC Pars, and we also have a sizable number of their work light product (the Altman retrofit kit). I can not divulge all of the details as we still have business pending with Crossroads LED, and there are some internal personnel matters at play here. I would not call them vaporware as I have several pallets of product that I can put my hands on in a matter of seconds. I can, however, say that the statement is an accurate description of their product line. Unfortunately, we have spent a lot of money on products that we can not use, did not perform as required, and in some cases actually caught fire during the install process. We were basically sold several pallets of snake oil.

I would recommend that anyone who is considering the Crossroads LED theatrical units find another supplier. If your facility is considering them, or has purchased product, feel free to PM and we can talk in more detail

My name is Buddy Stefanoff and I am the VP of Engineering for Crossroads LED.

Our company has recently become aware of Mr. Bigler’s slanderous statements regarding our company and its LED product line.

While it is unclear why Mr. Bigler would risk exposing himself to a lawsuit, it is obvious he is unaware of the legal and civil ramifications of his statements and the penalties involved should we consider moving forward.

Regardless of his reasons, I can state that I am unaware of any fire started by our products at the Tulsa PAC, the Tulsa fire department has no record of responding to a fire started by our products, the Tulsa PAC has never contacted our office about a fire, and the Tulsa PAC has never made an insurance claim regarding damage caused by our LED products.

The only incident the fire department has on record for a fire at the Tulsa PAC is when an incandescent stage light was left face down on a pile of trash which resulted in not one, but two fires:

http://www.newson6.com/story/26290870/tulsa-performing-arts-center-evacuated-for-smoke

We consider this rebuttal sufficient and plan no further comment or action. However, we reserve the right to immediately seek all remedies available by law and in equity in the event the above mentioned behavior continues.
 

STEVETERRY

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Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Location
New York

techieman33

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Nov 7, 2004
Location
topeka, ks
My name is Buddy Stefanoff and I am the VP of Engineering for Crossroads LED.

Our company has recently become aware of Mr. Bigler’s slanderous statements regarding our company and its LED product line.

While it is unclear why Mr. Bigler would risk exposing himself to a lawsuit, it is obvious he is unaware of the legal and civil ramifications of his statements and the penalties involved should we consider moving forward.

Regardless of his reasons, I can state that I am unaware of any fire started by our products at the Tulsa PAC, the Tulsa fire department has no record of responding to a fire started by our products, the Tulsa PAC has never contacted our office about a fire, and the Tulsa PAC has never made an insurance claim regarding damage caused by our LED products.

The only incident the fire department has on record for a fire at the Tulsa PAC is when an incandescent stage light was left face down on a pile of trash which resulted in not one, but two fires:

http://www.newson6.com/story/26290870/tulsa-performing-arts-center-evacuated-for-smoke

We consider this rebuttal sufficient and plan no further comment or action. However, we reserve the right to immediately seek all remedies available by law and in equity in the event the above mentioned behavior continues.
Welcome to the site, personally I think your chose a pretty bad way to introduce yourself and further turn off any potential customers. No one likes to be threatened with lawsuits for giving a bad review of a product. And honestly unless you have something new your trying to sell 4+ year old technology which is ancient in a field that's developing as rapidly as this one.
 

EdSavoie

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Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Location
Windsor, ON, Canada
Threatening a suit as your first post may not have been the *best* way for you to introduce yourself to a forum largely consisting of technicians, that aside, i'll personally give you the benefit of the doubt.

The post in question was in 2014, and a lot could have changed by then. For all we know, there was some sort of error in communication.
The fire quoted by you Mr. Stefanoff took place a month after his post, and would be unrelated to what Mr. Biggler was talking about.


If you'd like to win us over, a good idea may be product demos, politely saying you have never heard any reports of your units catching fire, etc..
As you are the the VP of Engineering, I can understand why you'd take it personally when you see one of your fixtures being talked about negatively.

If I may, lots of these posts seem to hint towards a conclusion I found when looking up your company. Given that your indiegogo only received four backers, and the last news article I can find about your company talks about installing lights at the aforementioned Tulsa PAC in 2013, it seems the company at the very least has a weak point in marketing. I know many of the people who are visiting this forum (myself included) are looking for options when it comes to LED lighting.

Our opinions are not set in stone when it comes to manufacturers, several old ones of poor build quality have excelled in recent years, and once great ones have since fallen to the wayside of relative bloated junk. Please feel free to present your company's abilities and products in the present day if you'd like to counter the negativity presented against you in 2014.
 

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