Day Light

[Lou9x9]

so in a recent play i was trying to achieve an effect where i shawn light through a window during a night scene to simulate the light of the moon from outside. that went over great. then i tried doing a similar thing where i was trying to achieve the affects of morning. That was less than satisfactory.
I was sondering exactly what technique i should use to achieve morning looking light. I have a full stage and all the equipment needed. just wondering.

 

[Tex]

Watch the sun rise a few times. Try to duplicate those colors. Then experiment with fixtures and angles until you get what you want.

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[seanandkate]

so in a recent play i was trying to achieve an effect where i shawn light through a window during a night scene to simulate the light of the moon from outside. that went over great. then i tried doing a similar thing where i was trying to achieve the affects of morning. That was less than satisfactory.
I was sondering exactly what technique i should use to achieve morning looking light. I have a full stage and all the equipment needed. just wondering.

What you need to do depends on what was "less than satisfactory" about the original. If it was the colour, then Tex is right on: actively look at colours at the time of day you are trying to replicate. If it's an intensity issue (moonlight punches through great because it has little competetion) then you will need to use higher wattage instruments or more of them. If you've got the throw distance, I've used a square bank of narrow PARs. With their parallel beams, they read well as a single instrument.

 

[JD]

Time to dig out those old Beam Projectors. Always good as a sunlight simulator. ACLs can work too, but there is the voltage and grouping thing. You are looking for a lot of lite that has a very tight angle.

 

[JohnD]

The angle really helps too, I remember seeing "1776" and the sunrise at the end used a very warm light from a low angle box boom position.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I think the hpl would be great for a beam projector. Source 4 BP anyone? We're I currently active in production lighting design I'd probably find more use for that than a Mini.

 

[JD]

I think the hpl would be great for a beam projector. Source 4 BP anyone? We're I currently active in production lighting design I'd probably find more use for that than a Mini.

Agreed! BPs are all but extinct, but there are certain applications where you need a lot of light in a very tight beam. Movers and other projectors can do this, but sunlight is special due to its very full spectrum. That leaves you setting up an ERS with a very tight lens. Somehow, it doesn't look the same. The BP was such a simple device, just a reflector and lamp as well as some shadow block to kill spill. It's beam pattern consistency was poor when used as a front light, but for something like sunlight through a window, it's hard to beat.

Real sunlight is somewhat coherent with regard to angle due to the distance of the sun from the earth. The shadows it casts are fairly well focused.

ACL's in a tight group can kind-of do that, but side spill light is a problem unless they are used in a deep can with an extender. I also think they are pretty rare to find in a theater setting now due to the quirk about groups of 4.

Be nice to see a modern beam projector, as in a lens-less fixture with a broad-tight beam. ETC BP4 anyone??

 

[BobHealey]

A few times when I've had to fake morning through a window, I've gotten decent results with this (YMMV, not every set/theater is the same), I've had decent luck placing a 30 or 40 degree Shakespeare in the SR loft, about 18 feet off the deck, and generally 12-16ft from the target window with an HX-601 and a cut of R33 in the gel slot. Its given me a nice, warm, slightly pinkish morning sunbeam that fills the window. I've tried this trick with a Source 4 and a HPL-750 long life and with the Shakespeare and an GLE lamp, and haven't been as happy with the results as with the HX-601.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I have no factual knowledge but I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't at least a file on this idea at ETC, if not a mock up.

I could only hope a Colorspot like HPL follow spot - which relied on a similar parabolic reflector also - was in the hopper.

 

[zmb]

Rosco has a mini-site of how designers have done certain effects with pictures and a write-up from the designers themselves. Apollo has an even bigger selection, but doesn't have anything in context like the Rosco site.

 

[DELO72]

What about a VNSP PAR? In that situation you are also getting a full-spectrum, narrow beam (and Parallel like a BP). ?? Just another thought.

 

[JD]

What about a VNSP PAR? In that situation you are also getting a full-spectrum, narrow beam (and Parallel like a BP). ?? Just another thought.

Funny thing about the VNSP par. I had to do this effect about 25 years back (sunlight through window) and it just didn't work right, ended up going with a beam projector.

From what my feeble mind remembers, the problem has to do with the lack of a shadow mask. Although most of the light in the beam of a par comes from the reflector, you still have the bare lamp shining out the front producing a very wide field. This kind of wrecks the distinct shadow effect. It also produces a lot of spill backstage.

On the beam projector, 100% of the output light comes off the reflector and there is a mask plate in front of the lamp. The result was a very clean projection on to the stage itself of the shape of the window frame and cross pane bars in the "window." That visual really brings home the effect.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Funny thing about the VNSP par. I had to do this effect about 25 years back (sunlight through window) and it just didn't work right, ended up going with a beam projector.

From what my feeble mind remembers, the problem has to do with the lack of a shadow mask. Although most of the light in the beam of a par comes from the reflector, you still have the bare lamp shining out the front producing a very wide field. This kind of wrecks the distinct shadow effect. It also produces a lot of spill backstage.

On the beam projector, 100% of the output light comes off the reflector and there is a mask plate in front of the lamp. The result was a very clean projection on to the stage itself of the shape of the window frame and cross pane bars in the "window." That visual really brings home the effect.

Could the VNSP be cleaned up through the use of concentric rings?

Seems that the Wybron BP-2 has been discontinued, however Pani still makes BP's. I'm not sure about Reich and Vogel, but I know there stuff was popular on tours a few decades ago. Mole-Richard makes BPs, but at the Mole price. Your best bet is to keep an eye on Ebay for old Kliegl/Altman/Century BPs.

Oh, and since you are near Chicago, Northwestern has/had a load of BP's.

 

[church]

I have had some success with a S4 PAR with the lens removed

 

[derekleffew]

... From what my feeble mind remembers, the problem has to do with the lack of a shadow mask. Although most of the light in the beam of a par comes from the reflector, you still have the bare lamp shining out the front producing a very wide field. This kind of wrecks the distinct shadow effect. It also produces a lot of spill backstage.

On the beam projector, 100% of the output light comes off the reflector and there is a mask plate in front of the lamp. ...

Bortz dot

FWIW, I've used anything and everything that makes light to simulate sunlight through a window, whether or not there's an actual window present. Sometimes one wants one big shaft of light. A 10kW Fresnel does this really good. Other times, one merely wants to subtly suggest the window as the apparent light source, and a 100W clip light did the trick.
.

 

[DELO72]

Funny thing about the VNSP par. I had to do this effect about 25 years back (sunlight through window) and it just didn't work right, ended up going with a beam projector.

From what my feeble mind remembers, the problem has to do with the lack of a shadow mask. Although most of the light in the beam of a par comes from the reflector, you still have the bare lamp shining out the front producing a very wide field. This kind of wrecks the distinct shadow effect. It also produces a lot of spill backstage.

On the beam projector, 100% of the output light comes off the reflector and there is a mask plate in front of the lamp. The result was a very clean projection on to the stage itself of the shape of the window frame and cross pane bars in the "window." That visual really brings home the effect.

Ahh! That makes perfect sense! Great explanation JD!