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Conventional Fixtures Do you use a fixture's "integral safety attachment point"?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by derekleffew, May 30, 2008.

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Do you use a fixture's "integral safety attachment point"?

  1. Yes, always.

    21 vote(s)
    19.6%
  2. Sometimes.

    52 vote(s)
    48.6%
  3. No, never.

    37 vote(s)
    34.6%
  4. What's a "safety"?

    2 vote(s)
    1.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Almost every conventional fixture since the mid 1990s has a built-in safety attachment point. Do you use it?
     

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    Last edited: May 30, 2008
  2. porkchop

    porkchop Well-Known Member

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    I love the safety point for accessories, scrollers in particular, but I find the yoke safetied to beam method to be easier for safetying the actual fixture itself.
     
  3. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    It would seem to me that using the safety attachment point on the fixture would be "safer" than just looping around the yoke of the fixture. Looped around just the yoke, you are only preventing against c-clamp failure. Clipping into the fixture, you prevent against clamp failure, yoke failure, clutch failure, etc. Also, in most cases I find by looping the safety through itself once around a structural hanging point and then only using the clip to attach it to the fixture, you end up with a greater range of movement for focusing than the traditional loop over the yoke method.
     
  4. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    Yes, but how long does that take to do.... its a pain. No one does that.
     
  5. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I personally think yoke failure in any way is highly unlikely. The most likely cause would be one of the bolts to work it's way out (which should never even come close to happening), but even then, I think one bolt would hold it up. It's a good idea, but it's most useful quality would probably be to cover the manufacturer's back in case something weird did happen. I couldn't imagine a yoke bolt sheering off or coming out completely on accident. The integral safety point is really a pretty thin piece of casting, and with enough force, it could crack and snap off as well.

    Might as well safety the barrel while you're at it. I would think it's more likely to slide out and pop someone in the head than the entire yoke coming loose from the fixture.
     
  6. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Almost never, only on S4 multi's, which hate me anyway. See my post in the safety cable topic for more opinion.
     
  7. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

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    Depends on the fixture. With the Strand SL's, the yoke attaches to a ring around the barrel, allowing for their 360deg barrel rotation, but the barrel really only rests within this ring. I was shocked the first time I saw it, but I have seen SL's where the plastic ring for the rotation broke. This means that the light really isn't being held up by anything more than sheer luck. because the yoke really only attaches securely to that ring.
     
  8. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I think I've only focused an SL once, but if one rotates the barrel 180° (and I don't see the need for any more than +/- 45°) doesn't the gobo holder fall out? How strong is the colorframe clip?
     
  9. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    I find that sometimes the safety is not long enough when attached to the S4 safety bond location. You also have to crush the wire down quite a bit near the point of damaging the wire which I don't like. When I got my new inventory into the theater I took the time to disconnect one side of the yoke slide the loop end of the safety cable onto the yoke.

    We put on a children's show at the road house down the street last month and while helping the house lighting crew to get what I wanted, I saw ONE S4 that used the safety bond. It's apparently the only one in their inventory that does it.
     
  10. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Are you talking about choking the loop end through the safety attachment hole? I've never seen that.

    I think the proper way is to either swage one's own safeties through the hole (which I've never seen--as stated elsewhere, it's generally not economical or wise to manufacture one's own safeties), or choke the pipe and clip to the attachment point.
     
  11. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    In the terms of movers i always attach the safety around the safety attachment point. Plastic handles do not stand up to a 50+ lb fixture pulling against it.
     
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Tim, would you/could you explain that to Vari*Lite?:evil:
     

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    Last edited: May 31, 2008
  13. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Still a lot of fixtures (like par cans) that do not have these points. Yoke is the best. Some are a little odd- My Chauvets have a threaded hole for an anchor eye screw and a picture of one in the manual. I have yet to find one metric or American that fits the threads ;)
     
  14. Les

    Les Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I would say it's a little more than luck holding the light within it's cradle. I agree that the SL's safety point may be more useful than a Source Four's, but the rotation knob really doesn't play a huge role of supporting the fixture's weight. The plastic bushings inside do break, this is an inherent problem with the SL line, but the cradle is held together by two fairly large phillips screws. The instrument is held into this cradle by means of grooves running the entire diameter of the fixture and posts (keys) on the cradle itself. The phillips screws would have to fail and/or the metal ring (cradle) would have to break allowing the cradle to separate (It's a two-piece assembly, with a seem on the top and bottom, hence the screws). I'm not saying this is unlikely, the metal on an SL is pretty thin compared to a Source Four or Shakespeare, and as I said before, it is only two phillips screws. But I don't think that just because the handle won't lock down puts the light in danger of falling.

    Yes, if the light is upside down the gobo holder could fall out, but, on an SL the gobo holder is also the accessory slot. The slot has a sliding door with two notches in it for the gobo holder's handles. Two allowing it to be put in facing either way. (we're talking the gobo holders that are shaped like a square with the handle off to the side, which fit the SL). Said door has two slotted finger screws allowing it to be tool less, so it should really never be open. I think that a gobo holder would be contained as long as it's closed properly, but I can't say the same for a gobo rotator or other such accessory. Never tried it. ETC really should go with finger screws on their accessory slots rather than phillips. Make them captive though, the ones on the Shakespeares ALWAYS fall out.

    The gel clip is pretty good. It has to slide to the left to open and seems reasonable sturdy. Just don't rough it up. As I said, these lights are pretty thin.
     
  15. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Yes I am talking about choking the loop end through the safety attachment hole. If you don't then you are back to the problem described earlier of not having a safety on the instrument. I think I've only seen safety theaters using the attachment point three times and in all three cases they were choked through the attachment point so that they didn't lose the cable.

    The U.S. instrument manufacturers could learn a lot from Selecon. They come with a safety permanently attached to the instrument. Some of their products like the Fresnels even have this clever retractor device built in so that you can have as little or as much cable as you need.

    It's nice to have this discussion in a place that we know ETC (and sometimes Strand) listens.
     
  16. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Paging ETC Fixture Manager, tomlittrell to the Booth, please...
     
  17. Trolley01

    Trolley01 Member

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    Same here. Does depend on the fixture a bit though. Anything which appears to have a 'weaker' joint between the yoke and the body will probably get attached to the safety point. As we generally use ETC stuff which has good joints - no problems!!
     
  18. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Is it ratcheting/inertia wheel, like a seat belt?

    Testing certificate doesn't specify.
     
  19. Trolley01

    Trolley01 Member

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    It would be an extremely good feature if it is an inertia wheel.

    I think if the integral safety points were in better positions, that were less restrictive to focusing, then I would be more inclined to use them. I know that the manufacturer's ought to know where the best fixing point is, but would be more helpful, for example, if there was an eye attached to the fixture near the yoke joint. Keeping the flexibility in, but still attaching to the fixture.
     
  20. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    I don't know "yoke joint", but the Strand series below (on the left, LEKO with a star in the "O") had the attachment (two actually) on the side of the body, opposite the tilt-lock. Clever design, but I pissed off others when I used it.

    My EC Parellisphere has a non-forged eye-bolt just behind the top shutter, 'course it weighs about 30 lbs. It may have been the first theatrical fixture to have an attachment point. Film/TV fixtures (Mole-Richardson, Bardwell-McCallister, et al.) had them for years before that.
     

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    Last edited: May 31, 2008

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