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Does anyone make...

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by gafftapegreenia, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    True colored glass lamps anymore?

    NOT clear glass dipped/sprayed/coated in a transparent color.

    NOT clear glass coated in opaque color.

    But lamps made of actual colored transparent glass?
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    so transparent colored party bulbs from like GE are not what you are thinking? I know or believe it's Abco that has a rainbow lamp that's really cool but I believe the glass is dipped also. They also have some colored silk lamps that are fun. But the coating on a party bulb is inside coated probably thus not true colored glass as per your question. Not sure I have ever seen a true colored glass lamp such as a stained glass window type lamp in solid color, would be hard and expensive to do I would think.
     
  3. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    The number of "party" bulbs I've all come across are all outside coated with some sort of lacquer. Haven't seen an inside-coat party lamp. I know some Christmas sets in the 30's were inside coat, but other than todays modern "frosted white" lamps I don't know what else is inside coat. Some seem to have been sprayed, while others dipped. I've noticed that the GE and Bulbrite colored lamps hold their color alot longer than the party bulbs made by Philips. Of course, I only buy the Bulbrite these days, as I can get them for nearly three dollars cheaper from my lighting supplier than GE or Philips lamps from Home Depot/other hardware stores. We're talking transparent colored lamps here, not like the coating on the bug lights we discussed a while ago. I seem to recall you saying that the "ceramic" coated lamps, in this case meaning lamps with an opaque finish, were made by rolling the envelope in colored glass particles and then melting these to form a solid surface. I wonder if this could be done with transparent glass particles.



    I know true color lamps existed. I've seen them on collectors websites, and older lighting books all refer to true colored glass lamps as an option.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2008
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    If you've got a couple of grand to spend, look no further than TMB's Blues System. Otherwise, the ceramic colored bulbs work well, and no taping gels onto clip lights.
     
  5. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    I've seen that Blues system, man it's cool.
     
  6. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Interesting, most party bulbs I see have this coating on the inside because the glass is shiny and not scratching. Have some various ones in the garage, I'll attempt to scratch the coating.

    Big question is why this question or theory?

    Possible I would assume to replace the ceramic frost outside frost colored lamp dip with something else that is transparent but probably not cost effective on other than a 20,000 hour lamp such as AeroTech makes. Most distributers such as them or Halco have sources that could custom dip lamps for you, might be possible to do a custom transparent dipping order in your transparent coating, probably not cheap. Could also possibly thin down Rosco lamp dip in a serious way - this given Rosco lamp dip is from He!! to deal with.

    AAMSCO Lighting, Tube Depot and Don's Bulbs would be worth a shout if such a lamp were ever made amongst some distributers that have been in business for the last 50 years or more that might know.

    Might be possible for a company like Shat-R-Shield www.shattershield.com a company that Tuff Coats lamps to do a custom colored lamp also.

    Special FX Glass Gel would be the best option however - they might even make such a thing. http://www.fxlight.com/

    After this, there is an alphabet of small lamp manufacturers out there who might already make such things or be willing to but that would take a lot of leg work and a custom order would not be cheap.
     
  7. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Did a scratch test of a GE trans yellow lamp, very interesting, there is like two layers of yellow film on the lamp. Wonder if that's the case with all lamps. Never noted a scratch on them before. Have to test a few other brands at work to see if they also do this - they probably do and that would be a factor in what I buy if any don't scratch.

    Interesting was the inside frost colored lamp did not scratch, nor did the black light blue.

    As opposed to me spending a half hour in copying a page of text out of 1929 Fuchs p406-407, here is the section on your question - a few more pages until I get to that chapter. If not readable, shouldn't be a problem to copy it into text but this was faster. Very interesting, sounds kind of like the description of a dichroic colored PAR 38 lamp. Can't beat them for purity of color in a PAR lamp.

    "All Natural Colored Glass Bulbs" would be the term but I seriously doubt such lamps are still made. I remember a few years ago looking for larger than 100w colored lamps and none were on the market. The description of how they did these lamps would lead one to believe larger wattage lamps were available or that lamp dip back than could not do a very high wattage - again the next chapter to read but suddenly a new inspiration to read it.

    As cited in the paragraph: Higher than average color purity. Available in ruby, green, blue and amber. Disadvantages, comparatively high cost - 3x as much as a clear lamp. (This would very much be a disadvantage to the continued production of them.)

    They also than go into the "daylight lamp" which is a lamp colored with a special tint of blue. Hmm, "Reveal" or "Daylight Plus" type color correcting lamps by way of neodymium coatings have been out there since the 1920's, fascinating... don't remember seeing them in my 1960's book on lamp/fixture engineering and it went into depth. Fascinating.

    It than goes into glass color caps for lamps which are basically a not so refined roundel that covers the A-Lamp. McMaster Carr sells such a colored bulb cover which both would act as a shatter proof coating and frosted lamp colored bulb cover. Got one on my desk, it's an interesting thing especially if put over a 20,000 hour lamp.

    End result, doesn't sound realistic that such pure colored lamps are still on the market. Some ancient lamp distributers might have one or two around for a certain price but I doubt anyone still makes them. Might inquire into http://www.bulbcollector.com/ antique bulb collector's forum. Lots of collectors and lamp experts there that would certainly know.
     

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  8. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Why party bulbs for back stage lighting? Why not frosted lamps? The visible filament on a party lamp can still blind the night vision out of people especially with the larger wattage lamps, also a frosted lamp will better disperse the light yet be soft. If normally using a 25w transparent blue lamp, you might have to go to a frosted blue 40w lamp in getting the same light output - that's might in not having tested actual light output.

    I use 40w IF blue 40w/130 or 120v lamps from Halco or Bulbrite currently, they are on a dimmer normally and with the 50w rough service lamps are in our standard four of each pack of lamps that go out with all sets of clip lights. Got these special foamed out cases cut specificically to hold eight A-19 lamps. One pack per set of four clip lights. No broken lamps, no boxes of lamps and packing peanuts coming back from shows with broken lamps inside with the rest of the lamps.

    Years ago while running a theater I used to get some 7.1/2w ?G-8 dipped lamps for my clip lights, it was enough to see one's way but not linger around the light backstage and talk - the talent is tempted to do. Remove the lighting other than for seeing one's way and they don't linger and make noise. Might move up to colored S-11 lamp of which Midway Lighting makes a good version offered by Action Lighting as a distributer. This if I needed a bit more light backstage. Than again I do rock these days and 40w is the minimum I can supply that is bright enough in a colored lamp. Normally at least, I stock from 11w to 100w in colored lamps.

    Osram and no doubt Mule and Norman amongst many other companies also offer colored LED lamps in A-19 thru S-11 sizes. The S-11 LED lamp especially looks like a S-11 lamp not that shape / looks matter much in a clip light. Got pricing on the new Osram LED lamps but didn't send the updated file home yet. As I remember it, the lamps were very reasonable in price considering their lamp life. Also the intensity was in the 25 to 11w range and output was similar to that of frosted colored lamps. Might be the way to go, cannot scratch or break them.
     
  9. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Interesting stuff, ship. The idea of a "true color glass lamp" has been on my mind for a while, especially after my reading of the Fuch's book. So, that's really my main point in asking. The backstage blue is more of a secondary reason, as I was searching the archives about backstage lighting last night.

    When it comes to clip lights, it seems to me that the transparent blue 25 watt lamps get used the most because they are the easiest to get "off-the-shelf". Of course, a big box of 25 watt frosted blue (I keep calling them ceramic-bad habit), would work nicely. Bulbrite's 40 watt lamps don't seem to last too long, at least in my experience, and 60 watt are probably too much for my current application.

    Ideally, some blue LED lamps would be best for clip lights in being a good retrofit and low-cost.

    Do you have a link/part number for those McMaster lamp covers?
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    I learned some stuff tonight myself, thus is why I come around this website in addition to paying back those who taught me, - never know where a Kernel of knowledge will come from. In my case, a few kernels of knowledge on this and the how to remove lamp dip question - though I would just toss them out. (See far below about further comments about my gratitude in thinking about another lamp type tonight.)


    I remember probably a few years ago and before the Controlbooth upgrade a discussion about clip lights back when and a NEC compliance concept on low voltage lamps discussed. Wonder if it still exists. None the less the TMB concept or some low voltage lighting I think as memory of the discussion goes would be compliant with code. This could be various LED systems or low voltage lighting on a power supply such as the power supplies for wire rope based low voltage steel wire rope carrier wire systems. High amperage transformers on them - sufficient to supply other purposes and more economical than other high amperage transformers.

    So you finished the Fuch’s book? I’m still one and a half chapters plus some appendixes short of finishing it and have a huge backlog after that to read. Much less other types of books on the currently reading or TBA stack of other types not so non-fiction.

    Ceramic coated is the exterior frosted lamps most commonly available thru sources like Halco, decent lamps - they don’t chip easily and are better than dipped lamps in my opinion especially in this way. Bulbrite 40w lamps not lasting too long is an interesting observation as I believe that is what I’m currently buying, I’ll have to inquire with the Leko Dpt. Manager if she has noted more than average amounts of missing or bad lamps from her clip light boxes of late - same brand I’m using of late. I don’t remember buying more of them than normal but than again I buy in bulk thus don’t really note such things beyond it being a busy touring season and buying more of everything much unless brought to my attention. Could be, Halco was the brand I bought before that and they seemed to last fine, otherwise there is lots of other brands of inside frost I think thru the premium brands and or other little companies that make colored lamps.

    Off the shelf trans blue lamps I would avoid if I could help it. I stock a certain amount of each wattage for stringer light applications but after that never use them and it’s been years since any have been requested. Always amazed at how many of these trans blue lamps, black light lamps and in general A-Lamps get bought by the shows on the jobsite and come back in their boxes brand new. What did they loose their clip light lamp box and send out a runner or something? Constantly getting lamps even still in their shopping bag from shows - so many lamps that I have started an end of year Christmas “Crazy Brian’s everything must go” give away to employees. Yep, everything useless or that I don’t want to have to inventory such as the endless boxes of A-Lamps and gaff tape of off brands I acquire get given away.

    Still just as a frosted RSC lamp in a cyc light would be preferable to a clear lamp, a frosted clip light lamp would be preferable to a transparent colored lamp - this especially if you put one behind the cyc in a rear of stage cross over where that filament/center of light and brightness would shine thru no matter where you pointed the lamp.

    Just go to McMaster Carr and search into bulb cover or near their lamp section. For the LED colored lamps, price was decent in theory but not quite enough for me to switch yet given the wattage I use these LED lamps didn’t seem to have enough output to match. On the other hand for stringer lamps, especially stringer lamps that don’t have to be removed between shows, that is what I am holding out for at the moment. Next time a show wants a bunch of construction stringer lamps strung overhead that’s the recommendation they will get - this given I have literally hundreds of other A-Lamps, even safety coated lamps in stock for this purpose. For clip lights, given the wattages I use, not bright enough, for stage on the other hand it is possible they would be bright enough. I’ll try to get some part numbers after work tomorrow.


    Back to what I’m working on as opposed to clip light lamps at the moment.

    This much less after spending much of the night inspecting moving light lamps (gee only like 1,500 more to inspect before I am caught up) it is relaxing to learn and discuss easier things. This lamp exploded possibly due to an inner pinch seal crack - this due possibly to the monofoil blackening and blueing near the globe. Than of course it could have been the lamp globe that exploded given the lamp came back only as shattered glass with only parts of the pinch and lamp bases left... Yep, like five minutes per lamp in computer tracking each one, figuring out if it is suitable to try again, trash or return, than assigning the replacement lamp to the fixture. This while all taking extended notes on the condition of the lamps - lamp hours, full inspection etc. some of which goes back to the vendors or fixture suppliers by way of study over problems I’m seeing so they can work on such things noted with the next upgrade.... yep, calculate 40 lamps per night on average, like 1,500 more to inspect (I got behind plus a few tours re-lamped all their fixtures recently at over a hundred lamps per tour), should take me like 39.75 more nights to get thru them in staying a few hours late four nights a week. Or gee, why don’t you like our newest favorite brand of lamp we specify for our fixtures... Let me provide you with three primary reasons and back it up with a comparison of a few hundred lamps of the two primary brands I have tracked in their demise as to why I dislike and don’t accept this brand you specify... Such stuff causes a big cog in the system with the manufacturer when I reject the lamps they ship with the fixtures. Etc etc. etc. Yep, incandescent lamps... much easier to deal with. Gee was the elephantitus (ditrification) of the lamp globe caused by a defect or dirt... Someone says the lamp counter says 1,200 up to 3,200 hours for lamp life, is that a fact or did someone forget to reset the lamp counter? Gotta study each lamp for little pinch cracks, pinch bleeds, pinch bubbles, electrode abnormalities, on axis twists, off axis tilts or bends and a multitude of other things. This all not including computer tracking of the lamps that takes for granted each person that installs the replacement lamp has filled out all questions about the lamp accurately and honestly, and this matches up to what the last person said about the lamp or fixture. If not it is often a bug hunt - especially when the computer looses a lamp or lamps in general assigned to fixtures when new I don’t get the list for what went into them, or what on paper is in them is really in them, or people in the field don’t do swaps between fixtures or lamps in general don’t just become lost. But I digress... incandescent lamps... sweat, was good to study more into them tonight, thanks.
     
  11. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    When I saw "The Blues" they just had a couple of battery operated demos. I asked if it would be possible to buy them like that. How cool would it be to have a half a dozen hockey puck stick on LED's back stage for making a set safe. Anyway the guy told me they weren't set up for that but thought he could get them and it wouldn't cost THAT much for them. I never followed up on it because I started messing around with building my own version instead... and I made a couple of cool devices. Need more time with the idea though.
     
  12. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Hmm, gonna have to yell at my supplier... where is my sample, I thought I was your favorite... Think I remember them being listed. Interesting idea, in your bringing them up I did read a little into them - though they remind me of the battery push the top of the fixture closet light currently in my front hall closet and burned out. When it worked it was not very bright - granted it's probably incandescent but looked similar and was store bought. Battery operated was not mentioned that I remember reading though that would be a better option than having to get your system wired up to power them up. This granted rechargable batteries for them would have to be charged at 3 Watts each at least once a week without forgetting. Not the best concept where one forgets or the batteries get weak after a year or two but better than as per microphones and wireless Clear Com having to stock batteries for them in bulk.

    Still overall such a concept is the way to go. Did gel a plug in an incandescent like 7w hall light at one point, was decent in intensity but burned thru the gel after a few months. LED plug in hall lights might also be an option, this granted their intensity is limited.

     
  13. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Ship, I finally had time to read your "long reply". Always glad to give your mind a little 'fun work'. Answers my questions and is therapeutic for you. I always find it interesting the glut of A lamps one collects. I feel bad throwing them out if they still work, but I don't need boxes and boxes of A lamps. Myself, I do avoid the transparent blue lamps for stage use. Now, I might use them at a party, but preferably not backstage. I really am quite fond of the Bulbrite products over all. Long lasting, vibrant colors, especially on their transparent blue.

    No, I haven't finished the Fuchs book. I've read most of it, but I skimmed the part on "home built equipment".

    Saw an interesting variation of colored lamps in the past week. It was the "middle ground" between ceramic and transparent. In this case, it was a true "frosted blue". It was as if a white frosted lamp had been coated blue, so that the filament was still visible, but just enough frost to diffuse the source. It was as if the lamp was coated in R121 Blue Diffusion.

    On the topic of LED lamps, might this, this, this, or this might be useful for backstage blue.

    Also, searched the McMaster site, can't seem to find the things.
     
  14. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    16925K22º is the general part number amongst styles and colors. Seems like it won't fit or break the lamp but does.
     
  15. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Hey, those are pretty neat, and on the same page are wire lamp guards. Who was it a few months back that was looking for wire lamp guards for their dressing rooms?
     

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