Career Advice Get @Dagger A Job

None of them made me even remotely ready to actually pull points in the ceiling.

I'll agree, you can take all the classes you want, read all the books you want, but nothing can replace actual experience at height pulling and making points and fixing mistakes.

Also looking at the video, it is going to be more common for the high rigger to have the rope himself, tie the bowline in, step it over the beam and drop the point himself. but that is the nature of rigging, no two buildings are the same and there have been many times in which i have used a catwalk guy to help lower a point. The only constant in rigging is gravity.
 
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I'll agree, you can take all the classes you want, read all the books you want, but nothing can replace actual experience at height pulling and making points and fixing mistakes.

Also looking at the video, it is going to be more common for the high rigger to have the rope himself, tie the bowline in, step it over the beam and drop the point himself. but that is the nature of rigging, no two buildings are the same and there have been many times in which i have used a catwalk guy to help lower a point. The only constant in rigging is gravity.



I agree with, cmckeeman, Most rigging that is done in arenas by the high riggers are pulled by them alone on the beam without being assisted by another rigger. But there are those facilities that the rigger that is on the bean are assisted by one to three other catwalk riggers pulling up the points so the beam rigger can attach the cable to the beam.
I just go through doing a rigger call at the XL Center in Hartford, CT. for the Trans Siberian Orchestra that had 115 points and most of them were bridles and a lot of 2 ton hoists.
In that building the steel structure is 90 ft. to pull the points up to so that local IA union normal way of rigging is have a person on the catwalk pull the points up to his partner that is on the beam.
If cmckeeman is old enough he would remember the McNickles arena in Denver which all the points had to be rigger from bucket truck, Condor, JLG type lifts because all the I-Beams to rig from were flush to the ceiling so all the points were rigged using their beam clamps. I have rigged in that arena many many times when I was on concert tours with my company Rigstar Rigging. I use to go in there every year when I was with Ice Capades as well.

When the building steel structure is not too high it is normal for the rigger on the beam to pull up and lower the rigging points themselves. It really depend on the strength of the high rigger. Strength conditioning to be a high rigger to pull up the points yourself is very important. I'm in the gym 5 to 6 days per week for 2 hours and most of that time is free weight training, abs and pull ups. I have trained many people from around the world to prepare for arena and theater rigging year round. 7 days of learning all aspects of rigging hands on our steel structure for open steel rigging as well as on a theatrical grid we installed in our facility. Reading books is a very good start, but thats all that is, is a start.
You have to have the personal hands on training and experience to become competent to perform rigging on the ground as well as on the steel structure. The round rigger to me is as important as the high rigger because if the ground rigger screws up making up the rigging points with the cables and shackle and deck chain, then the high rigger is going to be pissed, because the high rigger will have to change it up in the air to make it right or send it back down to the ground rigger to be fixed and then pull the point up a second time. Where ever you go to get professional training for live entertainment rigging make sure it's a hand on course with a lot of hours so you have the time to practice there what you are learning.
Most high riggers in the building do not know how to calculate the bridles for a show that goes in their building, it is normally the head rigger from the show that will calculate that out or the head rigger of the stagehand local will assist in calculating the bridle lengths with the show rigger.
The head rigger of the building should know the ins and outs of the steel structure and calculating bridles for the show rigger. A lot of the times the head show rigger will let the building head rigger calculates most of the bridle because he feels that the building rigger knows his building better than he does. For the most part, LOL...

We offer a 7 day hands on certification rigging course that is 12 hour days and usually more that 82 hours logged in for training for the 7 days. You are on a steel structure rigging on I-Beams as well as H-Beams and double angle iron trusses and hanging underneath the steel structure as well to pull up points. We had at least a 50 weight on the apex of the bridle to pull up so it simulates pulling up at least 50 ft of chain of a 1 Ton hoist. We add 100 lbs of a 2 Ton simulation.

There are many techniques that have to be learned to be competent in rigging on the high steel....... You can learn more about the course at: www.rigstar.com
and see a lot of pictures of the rigging facility and students, male & female performing...... There is no other place in the world that is dedicated and set up to conduct a complete hands on and class room training course.
What a student learns here in 7 days could take them years to get a chance to learn and have the hands on experience of rigging on a steel structure. The problem of trying to learn rigging on your own is to find someone with years of experience to take you under his or her wings and even then they only have so much time to give to you at any given time and thats why it may take a person quite a long time to be proficient and not dangerous to rig on the high steel alone.

The course outline for the "Complete Rigger" course: http://www.rigstar.com/schooloutline.html
The course outline for the "Right To the Point" course: http://www.rigstar.com/righttothepoint.html
Certification details: http://www.rigstar.com/Certification.html
Application form: http://www.rigstar.com/trainapp.html
You can see a video trailer: http://rigstar.com/RigstarVideoTrailer.html

The bottom line to have Certification first or professional hands on and class training? I would take the professional hands on training any day to start.

Is Certification important you might ask. Whether it be a Rigstar Certification or a ETCP Certification it doesn't really matter. Certification is not going to get you more pay above someone else that has a lot of years experience rigging in a stagehand local or is well known for rigging. I know, I belong to Local 53 IATSE in Springfield, MA.
I can tell you that most riggers that are road riggers on major tours do not have any rigging certification and don't even care to. They are known for their years of proficient rigging experience that gets them the work.

The important part for Certification for those that are beginning and have a few years under their belt, it gives them proof to a company that you have knowledge in rigging and you are not just anybody. Instead of you saying you have knowledge in rigging, the certifications lends proof of your words because you have been tested on your abilities for rigging.
 
I watched this video and few questions

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1:17 where is the rope
Coming from ( on his left,did someone throw
It to him)?

1:41 little spanset he chokes around the line ( what is the name of the line and is there a special name for
That little spanset? Is he doing a double choke?)

2:10 he takes the working end of rope and puts it through the orange thing (what's that name of that orange thing ; is that a bridle?)

2:15 what knot is he tying?

6:10 what is that brown bag called he's removing?

I'm thinking there is a guy on the catwalk lowering the whole thing ?

What is he lowering ; is it a motor
?

7:35 why is he doing a clove hitch on the pole ?


On a scale 1-10 how difficult was this rig?

Is ther a name for this type of rigging?


Lots of questions I have
Thanks for all replies!



Well, so much for me hating on YouTube. The 'Booth has used it to educate (again)! Nicely laid out Rigstar.
 
Well, so much for me hating on YouTube. The 'Booth has used it to educate (again)! Nicely laid out Rigstar.


Dagger, All the best in your future and if you have any other concerns or questions you are quite welcome to contact me direct at my email or call.
I just recently discovered this website and it seems to be a worthy one to be involved with. I will try to check in to answer anyone else that may have questions about rigging.
Have we talked before on the phone in December? I talked to a person from Canada that was looking to come to my rigging course and I was wonder if you are the same person.
Let me know if you would. Thanks and "RigSafe"
 
Just started rigging been doing about 6 days close to 30 hrs now over a month.... Omg I suck at it...... Still making
Mistakes, setting up pulleys wrong , choking slings on the wrong side....trouble managing my own rope.... It's frustrating makes me wonder if I can handle this job.....how was it for you guys when you first started ?
 
Did they have you down rig for a period of time? Any training outside of a show situation? I'm more concerned about if you can do the job safely vs if you can do the job efficiently. Slow down and take your time. Pulling points takes the amount of time it takes. If you can't do it fast enough for other people then have them replace you and train you better. The rope thing is a major concern, if you let a point go and a chain runs you can really do some damage to people skulls.
 
Whenever a company asks me to rig something (even just a fabric drop), I tell them that because I am not trained, I will not rig it. Yes, I know many knots—many of which are rigging knots—but knowing knots and knowing where and when to use them are vastly different. Not only am I concerned for the actors/technicians/anyone who walks on stage in terms of the physical weight, I'm concerned about my mental stress and the strain it could put on their necks if a shocking noise (something breaking) starts to fall and they whip their neck around. A friend of a friend was paralyzed permanently from a loud noise through the speakers from such an event.

There's a grand saying the "the show must go on" but why? If the show goes on in a way that dangers anyone, it's not worth it.
 
Guess what Dagger? There will always be a person or situation make you feel like you suck. And comparatively, you just might. You're never going to master it all. Nobody does, nobody can. But here's the thing: you can't tell how good you're getting by looking at where you are, you gotta look at how far you've gone from where you used to be. 1% better everyday, that's all it's gotta be.

I still get dragged into deep water (knowledge and skill wise) by other people, and I've been at this...well, let's just say 10 + years. It happened this week. I don't see it as a beatdown- it was more like a mind blower. Now I'm better than I was last week. Now I get to take that to the rest of my crew and blow their minds. It's gonna be cool!

If you don't feel safe, if you don't understand, if you have questions: just keep asking. You might catch some crap- it is the way of the rigger. But if you're asking, you're trying. You're thinking. And most of us love that. And the skills will come to you. Stick with it, know your limits, and go home alive.
 
Whilst this might not be as motivational as WhatRigger ... remember it only takes one proper cock up to turn your name to mud and then finding work can become very difficult.

If you don't know what you're doing, maybe see if you can get some more time on the ground and watch what the top riggers are doing. Between me thinking I was ready to top-rig and when I realised I was actually ready was about 12 months of rigging daily. The point at which I became really able to call myself a 'rigger' came even later.
 
It has been two months since I got called to attend my orientation.

Wondering when I should expect my first call .

How long did it take you guys to get the first call.
 
I am with 4 different production companies yet I barely get any gigs.

One company is my main, as previously mentioned they started putting me through rugging training. But yet still I get very little calls syagehand or rigging ( 15 hrs a week)

I am also with 3 others - one of them is IA - they haven't called since I went for my orientation.

The other two I worked 1 gig and haven't called again

i am one of the few who has all the tools needed ... -Even though those companies don't require you to have anything- and I have 6 certifications related to this industry . ( pyro, scaff, elevated work platforms, forklift, etc)

It's frustrating man don't know what else to do I have a good reputation in this industry eventhiugh I only been doing this approx 1 year. Production people supervisors etc are all saying I am doing great but yet I don't get many calls or at all .Don't know what else to do man ...

Attend more training courses? Been spending more than thousand for courses and tools

It's frustrating I am better off working a " normal" job 5 days 40 hrs.... eventough I love this industry might have to turn my back on it.

Really hoping this summer with all the festivals I be able to work 6- 7 days a week .

How was it for you guys when you first started ? how long did it take you guys to get calls consistently?
 
I have to ask, how often do you call/email/text in? Let them know you are hungry! Don't just wait by the phone. Especially when it comes to the IA, you have to call in often, if not daily, to let them know you are available.

But I feel your pain. When I was freelance I had at least 4 main companies, with a smattering of random gigs with other places, and I was always working new contacts. It's constant paper chasing struggle.
 
I have to ask, how often do you call/email/text in? Let them know you are hungry! Don't just wait by the phone. Especially when it comes to the IA, you have to call in often, if not daily, to let them know you are available.

But I feel your pain. When I was freelance I had at least 4 main companies, with a smattering of random gigs with other places, and I was always working new contacts. It's constant paper chasing struggle.

Why I went in for my orientation with IA they told us we are not suppose to call the BA and ask for work... We only are to contact him when we are not available for a longer period of time or if we are running late ....

As for the other ones I email them 1 a month... I email
Them I don't hear from them I just leave it then I email again a month later .


As for my main company I dint ask - they just contact me book me 2 days for upcoming week... So I don't ask for more shifts.

Don't really want to bug them too much
 
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Why I went in for my orientation with IA they told us we are not suppose to call the BA and ask for work... We only are to contact him when we are not available for a longer period of time or if we are running late .....

Interesting. My experiences in Milwaukee, Chicago and Atlanta were all the opposite of that.

Any other Canadiens able to chim in? Maybe your IA just isn't that busy and/or has too many hands and since you are new you are just so far down the list they haven't gotten to needing you yet. But really I don't know.
 
My thoughts would be that Vancouver like northern states in the U.S slows down during colder months and pick up starting now. Its about to warm up, wait and see if your dry spell was due to the fact that this was the slow time in your area because it was cold.
 
Hi

I wonder how it work to go on a tour ?

For those from the the states doing a show in Canada / Europe / Asia do ou guys apply for work permits ?

How about guys from Europe coming to USA/ Canada/ Asia?
 
Typically your artist's managment will handle applying for the work permits.
 
Everyone needs permits. Everything you are taking in needs customs ppwk. Doesn't matter which way it is going. Nothing makes a tour manager bite their nails more then crossing a border. There are companies that specialize in this sort of thing. You can't get a tour bus across the border without a permit. If you are carrying a guitar or other gear through the airport customs WILL stop you. Don't ever get on a plane with the instructions "just tell them you are a tourist". It won't work.
 
Something to keep in mind is a criminal record. I tell younger stagehands if you have a DUI you have just made it very very hard for yourself to tour outside of the U.S. I know Canada and South East Asian countries make it very difficult. I toured with a person who had this exact same experience. When this person was 19 they were arrested for DUI, as a result of a tour we were on going to Canada for two months he had to contact a Canadian lawyer and get the proper paperwork sorted out that cost around $2,000 to legally enter the country and when we were at the border this person was detained for about an hour for questioning. It was required of this person for 10 years from the date of the incident, this person was 28 at the time so would only need to deal with this for one more year while on the road. A lot of I.A.T.S.E contracts even state that you have to come clean about a past criminal record that could keep you from traveling internationally at the beginning of employment. This will not keep you from getting hired but if you lie about it and do no come clean and can not go to say China for two months you can be held responsible for the flight and hotel of your replacement, also you may or may not be eligible to return to the tour after they return from China.

Just some info to throw out there, bad decisions can affect your career for a long time.
 
Something to keep in mind is a criminal record. I tell younger stagehands if you have a DUI you have just made it very very hard for yourself to tour outside of the U.S. I know Canada and South East Asian countries make it very difficult. I toured with a person who had this exact same experience.

This is no joke. We had a truck driver detained for a past minor offense at the border. We didn't know it until we pulled into the venue and our first truck of scenery was no where to be found. The border does not care what you are doing or what your cargo is, if you have a criminal record expect it to be hard to cross into Canada for work or vacation.
 

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