good pre-made dmx cable

[derekleffew]

...NSI / Leviton DMX 3-Pin Cable - 25' DMX3P402025 B&H Photo Video
YMMV. The product description states not suitable for digital control.

What it says is:

A 3-pin cable is used for non-digital applications. A 5-pin (DMX512) cable is used for digital control boards.

which is almost as erroneous as the comments on the "Facts about DMX" site.

...Consider buying proper DMX cable and adapting each side. I wouldn't want any XLR3 terminated DMX around my space.

So to control a bunch of Studio Spots/Colors/I-Beams/Cybers/MAC500/600/most LED PARs, your data chain would look like:
["<---" indicates a 5-pin XLR cable, "<" indicates male end]

Console:<----:Adapter, 5-3:Light:Adapter, 3-5:<--:5-3:Light:3-5:<--:5-3:Light:3-5:<--: ... :terminator

Sure seems like a lot of unnecessary connections and gear to keep track of to me.

 

[sblair]

What it says is:

So to control a bunch of Studio Spots/Colors/I-Beams/Cybers/MAC500/600/most LED PARs, your data chain would look like:
["<---" indicates a 5-pin XLR cable, "<" indicates male end]

Console:<----:Adapter, 5-3:Light:Adapter, 3-5:<--:5-3:Light:3-5:<--:5-3:Light:3-5:<--: ... :terminator

Sure seems like a lot of unnecessary connections and gear to keep track of to me.

It's much less annoying than having a mixed inventory of different cable types! And no matter which cable you grab, when you look at the end you WILL find it has the wrong number of pins. In fact, that is such a true statement, I think I'll call it Terry Law. In honor of the man that finally flogged HES enough until they(we) put 5-pin on the products!

 

[derekleffew]

...And no matter which cable you grab, when you look at the end you WILL find it has the wrong number of pins. ...

I know how many pins it has before I grab it. Depends on what color the XLRs of the XLR/RAM/DMX cable are painted.

...
"XLR" to refer to any 3-pin data cable
"RAM" to refer to any 4-pin data + power cable, including LEDs
"DMX" to refer to any 5-pin DMX cable.

...In fact, that is such a true statement, I think I'll call it Terry Law. In honor of the man that finally flogged HES enough until they(we) put 5-pin on the products!

Yeah, yeah, we've all heard the tirade:

Not much has changed on this issue since 1998, when I wrote this article, with some grinding of teeth!
Whose network is it, anyway? Why the end user is the loser in the DMX512 connector controversy
ST

But, IMHO, he's the cause of the confusion, for not being specific enough back in 1986. I'm not sure it proper to name a law after the person responsible for the problem in the first place; something like the Dahmer Law against serial murder and cannibalism, or something.

I also like how, in the video, Dr. DMX blames the whole 5/3 issue on the poor innocent, defenseless Intellabeam. I don't think I'd ever heard than explanation/hypothesis before, but it's as believable as any. If we could go back in time and alter the course of history, I'd love to hear the outcry had the connector changed when the I-Beam went from Lightwave Research protocol to DMX!

 

[len]

The 3pin/5pin problem will likely go away ONLY IF everyone starts using Cat5 or wireless or whatever. And whatever replaces 3 or 5 pin will still have multiple replacements and still not be 100% standardized. It's why I always try to refer to cable carrying dmx (whether 3 pin or 5) as DATA cable. Not a perfect solution, but whatever.

And really, when someone asks directions to the store, you don't give them the history of the automobile they're driving in, do you? All the OP wanted was a source for good quality cable.

 

[sblair]

But, IMHO, he's the cause of the confusion, for not being specific enough back in 1986. I'm not sure it proper to name a law after the person responsible for the problem in the first place; something like the Dahmer Law against serial murder and cannibalism, or something.

Not sure how you say it is Steve's fault. The 5-pin XLR was clearly specified as far back as the 1986 original version of DMX. All the moving light companies started with their own protocols using 3-pin and it wasn't until later ~'92 that they started implementing DMX as a secondary protocol. It was then a matter of overcoming the sheer intertia of getting everyone to finally change. For HES, that was around '99 that it finally happened.

 

[JD]

The debate, as well as the debate as to if there even is a debate will go on for the life of DMX !!

5 pin guy:
It's the standard, that's all there is to it! I don't want my cables to be confused with sound cables, and I want to be able to rent in equipment and not worry about converter connectors.

3 pin guy:
Oh, but the connectors are so much cheaper and most of the stuff I have is 3 pin anyway! Don't ever expect to be renting in extra stuff anyway.

 

[SteveB]

Not sure how you say it is Steve's fault. The 5-pin XLR was clearly specified as far back as the 1986 original version of DMX. All the moving light companies started with their own protocols using 3-pin and it wasn't until later ~'92 that they started implementing DMX as a secondary protocol. It was then a matter of overcoming the sheer intertia of getting everyone to finally change. For HES, that was around '99 that it finally happened.

Ummm Scott, the data sheet for the HES Studio Spot CMY/Zm shows it as being shipped with 3 pin only. Which is exactly as I received them as new in '06 and seemingly as they still ship today. I know we've had this discussion over on LN so no more beating a dead horse.

 

[sblair]

Ummm Scott, the data sheet for the HES Studio Spot CMY/Zm shows it as being shipped with 3 pin only. Which is exactly as I received them as new in '06 and seemingly as they still ship today. I know we've had this discussion over on LN so no more beating a dead horse.

Steve, it's very simple. All NEW products designed after '99 were designed with 5-pin XLR. Existing products continued with the connectors they were designed with. It can be argued right or wrong all day long. But the reasoning for it was so that everyone at least KNEW what to expect when renting gear. It would have been even messier for rentals if you never knew what connectors to expect on the gear you rented at all.

 

[derekleffew]

SteveB fails to mention that he took the somewhat controversial (but justifiable, IMHO) measure into his own hands by changing the connectors on his in-house, never-to-leave-the-building, fixtures over to 5-pin XLR.

[-]Funny[/-] Possibly amusing, anecdote: In 2000, while being shown the not-yet-released x.Spot at the HES factory, someone (a co-worker of mine no less) responded to Brad's "and it has 5-pin XLRs" with "Is that because of the amount of information it needs?" :facepalm:

-----

Not sure how you say it is Steve's fault. The 5-pin XLR was clearly specified as far back as the 1986 original version of DMX. ...

What I meant was, obviously (in hindsight) the phraseology

"Where connectors are used, they shall be of the XLR-5 type."

was not worded strongly enough. Perhaps the mattress tag "Under penalty of LAW" and/or "Violators will be shot upon sight" should have been added.

 

[sblair]

What I meant was, obviously (in hindsight) the phraseology was not worded strongly enough. Perhaps the mattress tag "Under penalty of LAW" and/or "Violators will be shot upon sight" should have been added.

It had the correct use of "shall" in the original language and in the world of Standards that is as strong as it gets in being an absolute requirement.

 

[STEVETERRY]

I get the very rare opportunity to quasi-correct Steve Terry on something

E1.11 actually says nothing about cabling. All cabling requirements were moved to seperate documents. Those are E1.27-1 for Portable Cables and E1.27-2 for Permanently Installed Cables. Available for purchase from: ESTA Foundation - Publications - About Publications, Browse & Purchase

What E1.11 does specify are connector types that are allowed. The use of the 3-pin XLR is specifically DISALLOWED. End of discussion.

Here is what E1.27-1 says on the cable construction:

ANSI E1.27-1 - 2006 (R2011) also states that it is allowed to build portable cables that contain only the primary data pair provided they are marked with "Single pair" or "1-pair" and also marked with a violet band at least 1/2" wide within 2 inches of this marking. Of course, you still can NOT use the 3-pin XLR. You MUST use the 5-pin XLR (for what I hope are obvious reasons!)

So, that's the end of what the standards say. In Europe it is very common to build single pair portable cables which is why this is included in the standard. In the US most portable cables are wired for all 5 pins. Many(most?) permanent installs do not have all 5 pins wired. Back in my day at ETC, standard procedure was NOT to connect pins 4/5 in the wall plates in installs. I do not know what current practice on their installs is.

In reality, aside from a few legacy proprietary uses pins 4/5 are not being used for anything. They are generally a landmine of incompatabilities for the few that tried using them.

In regards to shielding, I believe portable cables should all be shielded, but according to Steve Lampen from Belden at the speeds we are running for DMX512, the shielding provides relatively little noise immunity compared to the pair twisting, which is what provides the most immunity. This is another reason it is important to use proper data cables and not audio cables. Audio cables may be well shielded, but they don't have the proper twisting to provide good noise immunity for DMX512 (not to mention the high capacitance issue!).

Right you are, Scott.

ST

 

[nquinn2]

Lex Products makes very durable data cables:

Data Cables | Lex Products

Most of the rental houses in my area use Lex cables. Their molded multi-cables are pretty sweet too.

Nick

 

[MNicolai]

Lex Products makes very durable data cables:

Data Cables | Lex Products

Most of the rental houses in my area use Lex cables. Their molded multi-cables are pretty sweet too.

Nick

Agreed -- the Lex cables of any flavor they produce are always high-quality in my experience, but be prepared to pay for that level of quality.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Agreed -- the Lex cables of any flavor they produce are always high-quality in my experience, but be prepared to pay for that level of quality.

The LEX DMX cable I used in college seemed to melt very easily. Either we brought the wrong product (very possible) or their jacket just isn't as heat resistant as I would expect DMX cable to be.

 

[SteveB]

The LEX DMX cable I used in college seemed to melt very easily. Either we brought the wrong product (very possible) or their jacket just isn't as heat resistant as I would expect DMX cable to be.

Doesn't like 208v, or whatever your "commercial" building provides. (JK)

Me thinking as well that Jeff, remember Jeff, from the OP ?, has LOoooong ago checked out.

I LEARNED some stuff though !. Like HES will be shipping Studio Spots with 3 pin connectors for a LONG time !.

 

[65535]

How hot exactly are you getting your cables, HDPE used in the jacket is rated upto 180F which is a lot hotter than I'd expect any of my cables to get.

Cables shouldn't be in contact with hot equipment.

EDIT: It is a urethane jacket NOT HDPE which is used in the conductor insulation.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

How hot exactly are you getting your cables, HDPE used in the jacket is rated upto 180F which is a lot hotter than I'd expect any of my cables to get.

Cables shouldn't be in contact with hot equipment.

Yes, I know cables shouldn't touch hot equipment. I do my best to prevent that but my eyes can't be everywhere all the time, and especially when stagecraft kids are involved, sometimes cable gets looped and hung on the back of lights because someone is to $%^&*#$ lazy to go get some tie line. I was usually able to catch these mistakes before damage happened. I only wonder how they're getting on without me. Whatev. (and yes I was very vocal with my concerns during my time there incase anyone wants to play that card on me).

However, in another situation, the cable experienced melting when within a few inches of the back of a Source 4. Leaving some sort of focus loop is necessary in order to DMX a Seachanger. The DMX cable was also run and properly dressed right along side a 12/3 SOOW cable that showed no damage.

 

[JD]

<slightly off topic>
This may all become obsolete info in a few years. I suspect, just like netbooks and Ipads, we will start to see instrument-level wireless DMX start to pop up. The cost to the manufacturer for a wireless adapter blown onto the motherboard of a laptop computer is less than $1. Of course, design cost is written off over millions of units made which is something that doesn't happen in the lighting world. Still, the industry could piggyback using materials already available in much the same way as boards piggybacked on preexisting computer technology.

Security would necessitate the DMX ride on a keyed packet system, much like DMX over Ethernet currently does, but imagine not having to run any DMX cables to any fixtures!

The advantages go beyond the lack of cables. Although due to FCC limits, there would be distance limits and the hassle of repeaters, you also would eliminate the 32 fixture limit. Also, considering that current wireless speeds are measured in Ghz, there would be the ability to handle hundreds of universes on such a system.

</slightly off topic>

 

[Jeffhtg]

Agreed -- the Lex cables of any flavor they produce are always high-quality in my experience, but be prepared to pay for that level of quality.

Very familiar with them.. I think you are right that they may be a bit pricey. The reality is that all the low level stuff you buy these days has 3 pin. So there is a need to have good / cheap 3 pin.

After I started buying audio cable from audiopile I have been so happy with the price and performance it just doesn't make sense to make cable. I was really hoping to find the same type of provider for lighting cable :/

 

[Gern]

Very familiar with them.. I think you are right that they may be a bit pricey. The reality is that all the low level stuff you buy these days has 3 pin. So there is a need to have good / cheap 3 pin.

After I started buying audio cable from audiopile I have been so happy with the price and performance it just doesn't make sense to make cable. I was really hoping to find the same type of provider for lighting cable :/

Please disregard if this is not the case, I'm NOT saying you would:
Just remember that if a cable is out of spec. for the DMX512A standard, it may work wonderfully without any noticeable disturbance of the signal... Until one day... when it just won't work 'properly' anymore. With all the other usual suspects potential for causing a corrupted data signal- bad fixtures, connectors, 'proper' cable going bad, lack of termination, to name a few- I wouldn't want to find out that the reason for the failure was something preventable. Like using the wrong cable!
Granted everyone can have a different perspective and different levels of acceptability for failure, but in my gigs, it would be unacceptable to use mic cable or any other cable not matching up to the spec standards.
I hope that helps.