Help a director out? Insight 2 board

[mrdramatic]

Hello, I am new here but have been reading for quite some time. I have spent most of my life directing shows at various high schools with someone else taking over for other respective roles. However, at my current school (of which I am new at) I have no such people and am relying on help from other teachers, students, etc. The thing here is that we have very high quality set up regarding facility with a very nice lighting set up.

My problem is that I need to learn some ins and outs of our lighting so that we can put on some shows. At least enough to have a trusted student run them until we can get a proper lighting person. Now I have some experience in the technical side as I have done some scenic design and construction, along with rigging and some lighting. The lighting I have done in the past involved the dimmer packs being directly on the batten and connecting lights into them as needed and then setting the proper channels. Our system however involves dimmer racks where you soft patch what you need. This is the part that is new to me. I have been reading in the manual for our Insight 2 board and have learned some basic things and still have much more to learn. My current problem is that I figured out how to assign specific lights to specific sliders on the board, however I then lose that light elsewhere. For example, if I want slider 1 to turn on light 1 and I want slider 2 to turn on lights 1/2/3 together, how do I do this. If I do it the way I have learned thus far when I assign the lights on slider 2, I lose light 1 on slider 1.

I am sorry to sound like such a beginner to all this as I am sure this is the most simple of questions for you guys. That being said, if you guys could help me out it would be so appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[DavidNorth]

Hi,

I think you might be confusing softpatch with submaster programming.

Softpatch allows you to assign dimmers to channels. For example, you might wish to have all of your red cyc light dimmers [physical circuits on the cyc electric, number 89, 92, and 95] on one channel [71]. In that case, you would go to PATCH and press [89][AND][92][AND][95][ENTER][71][ENTER]. Or you might want your light in dimmer 25 to be in channel 1. So similarly, you would go to PATCH and press [25][ENTER][1][ENTER].

Submasters allow you to take individual and/or collections of channels, all at various levels, and record that look into a fader that can be controlled manually. Be in STAGE and then set your levels by typing in the keypad and then press [REC][the sub button you wish to record into]. It's very fast. In fact, you can even bring up submasters to various levels and then record that live look into another submaster. And channels can be in very many submasters.

Patching assigns dimmers to control channels. Submasters are a collection of channels at various levels.

Does that help?

David

 

[mrdramatic]

Ok, so tell me this. Currently, channel 2 brings up all the lights on the 1st Electrics, channel 3 brings up all the lights on the 2nd electrics, channel 4 brings up all the lights on the 3rd electrics. 64 is a number on the 1st electrics batten (is this number the circuit or the dimmer?) When I thought I should be using soft patch and only wanted the light on 64 to turn on when I slid up channel 72, I did [PATCH] [64] [ENTER] [72] [ENTER]. By doing this I can now control the light on 64 with slider 72, however it no longer turns on when I slide up channel 2 with the rest of the lights on the 1st Electric as it did before. I assume because it as completely reassigned that light? So you are saying that I should instead be using submasters in order to have usage of the same light on multiple sliders? Again, sorry for being such a newbie.

 

[NickVon]

You got it right MrDramatic. Don't think of using the "channel's" to control your show. Channels are just a way of organizing your self on the console. The Insight if i recall has a option to set all your dimmers to a 1 to 1 patch. then bring up channel faders and make a note of what they do/where they are focused/how many instruments come on. (ex.) Then find all your front wash, divide them up as say L C and R and record 3 submasters. maybe the L is only 1 light on dimmer. maybe it's 3 dimmers on 3 channels, and you want to include the channels for top light and back light on your stage L area submaster as well.

When you go to then manually run a show, swap over to submaster mode, and play.

 

[mrdramatic]

You guys have been a huge help. I tried it out and it worked in the manner that I was looking for. I did a lot of reading up on submasters and am now a little better educated on the topic. Now that I know a little more about what I am talking about and also still on the topic of submasters: Currently as stated previously, in regular [STAGE] mode and with [SUB MODE] turned off, slider 2 turns on all of the 1st electrics, slider 3 the 2nd electrics, and 4 the 3rd electrics. Does that mean that whoever came in and set it that way assigned those particular dimmers (65 thru 93, 94 thru 112, 113 thru 131, respectively) to channels 2, 3, and 4? To me, those would be better off split up a little bit rather than having all of those lights assigned to one channel each and now that I know about submasters, would be better off made as a submaster for each electric. Am I right in thinking this? Is this kind of what you are talking about at the end of your post NickVon or as I have seen in some places when people refer to "zones"? (They have them set like this to easily light the stage for orchestra concerts and such) (Now that you guys have helped me make some progress, I'm getting in to this a little more!)

 

[lwinters630]

Lets start at the beginning. Plot out you electrics with the area it lights and the dimmer number. You can do this by using a dimmer check. dimmer 1 @ full enter. then use the plus and minus to go through them. Once you know where your lights are and their dimmers then you can patch them to channels. I like to arrange them into channels that make sense. For example I light the down stage in five areas, each area has two lights cross lit, so dimmer 1 and 16 from the catwalk focus on the down right area. I patch them to channel 1( dimm 1 and 16 chan 1 enter). then I put the others in so I end up with DR on channel 1, DMR on Channel 2, DC on Channel 3, DML on channel 4, DL on channel 5. Then go on to back lights, mid stage zones, up stage zones. As long as there is some form of logic your students will catch on.

If I type channel 1 thru 5 @ full the whole down stage area should come on. If your sub mode is off then it should be slider 1 thru 5.

Lets say each of those zones have a back light on channel 6 thru 10. You can use the sub mode to combine the front and back, yet still be able to take individual channels for special looks. simply type channel 1 at 80 and channel 6 at full record sub 1 (solo).

I also record a blank look into cue 1 (channel 1 thru 999 at 0 record cue 1 label "black out"). This way I can always have a cue to that is "empty" (then you won't need the solo function.)

channels are a group of one or more dimmers in a logical order. A sub is a group of channels to create a "look". A group is like a sub without a slider handle. Make group your friend. use group sub to take lights out of a cue. A cue is a collection of channels that create a "look" that will advanced with the go button. For now just use the A/B fader and ignore the C/D.

summary.
patch dimmers to channels.
channels to Subs, or groups
uses channels, subs, groups to build cues.
use cues to play back the show.

I hope this helps.

 

[DavidNorth]

Currently as stated previously, in regular [STAGE] mode and with [SUB MODE] turned off, slider 2 turns on all of the 1st electrics, slider 3 the 2nd electrics, and 4 the 3rd electrics. Does that mean that whoever came in and set it that way assigned those particular dimmers (65 thru 93, 94 thru 112, 113 thru 131, respectively) to channels 2, 3, and 4? To me, those would be better off split up a little bit rather than having all of those lights assigned to one channel each and now that I know about submasters, would be better off made as a submaster for each electric. Am I right in thinking this? Is this kind of what you are talking about at the end of your post NickVon or as I have seen in some places when people refer to "zones"? (They have them set like this to easily light the stage for orchestra concerts and such) (Now that you guys have helped me make some progress, I'm getting in to this a little more!)

Yes, it does sound like someone patched each electric's dimmers into a single channel. To verify, you can go to [PATCH] and the channels/dimmers will be displayed near the top of the screen. Channels will be down the left side and the collection of dimmers on the right. It will be quite obvious and does make sense with your description. I think you are getting the hang of this.

Yes, it does make sense to split them up some. The grouping can be done still in the same submasters [as opposed to patching into a few channels]. Some facilities will patch "systems" of light together, such a specific color of downlight, into a channel. Other spaces will put each light on it's own dimmer and it's own dimmer to have a fine level of control of each light, however, that can also take a lot of console channels - not to mention the time to program.

Zones is typically an architectural lighting term and is indeed similar to channels in a console. Then there is the concept of areas, which denote a space [on a stage, etc] where light is focused and controlled.

David

 

[mrdramatic]

I also record a blank look into cue 1 (channel 1 thru 999 at 0 record cue 1 label "black out"). This way I can always have a cue to that is "empty" (then you won't need the solo function.)

I hope this helps.

lwinters630: do you mind elaborating on that statement a little bit? I saw the SOLO button directly below the SUB MODE button but was a little at a loss to it. Do you mind explaining it and why you prefer your statement above as opposed to the solo function?

All of this stuff is really helping me on my crash course, thanks guys.

*funny you mentioned plotting out my lights and doing a light check as I was making a plot as you made your post.*

 

[mrdramatic]

Yes, it does make sense to split them up some. The grouping can be done still in the same submasters [as opposed to patching into a few channels]. Some facilities will patch "systems" of light together, such a specific color of downlight, into a channel. Other spaces will put each light on it's own dimmer and it's own dimmer to have a fine level of control of each light, however, that can also take a lot of console channels - not to mention the time to program.

David

Above you talk about how putting each light on its own dimmer and channel, but can take alot of console channels - Are the number of channels on the console (108) the end all number of channels? AKA, I can't just go to another page like I can submasters (10 pages on Insight2)

Also, I see that you are from ETC, our system has a touch screen panel on the wall in both the booth and on the stage (right wing). The touch screen in the booth offers more options. It is normally used for turning on the House Works, Electric Works, Stage Works, etc. The one in the booth has additional tabs that includes some Presets. Are these presets separate from any changes I make on the console or will it effect it if I am messing with reassigning dimmers to different channels? The reason I ask, is a lot of people rent out our facility and for example I know one of the symphonies that uses it just uses Preset 2 when they come from the touch screen on the wall. I don't want to mess this up which is why I am asking.

On that note....how do I make my own presets with that touch screen?

Thanks in advance.

 

[lwinters630]

The solo button you are looking at is a bit different than what I meant. That one puts it in a bump solo mode and (I think) turns on the one you bump and everything else off.

The Solo I was refering to is found by hitting the s7 and then it is the s3. When recording selected channels amoung a whole cue of many channels you can use the solo button to only record the ones you want. IE. I have 20 channels lite on stage but I want to record channel 1 and 5 and 8 and 10 into a group. type channel 1 and 5 and 8 and 10 record group 9, s7 s3 (solo). only those channel will go into the group. I actually turns off everything else for a split second and records it. I does other stuff as well but that is lesson 2.

 

[lwinters630]

Those Touch panels are tied to the unison in the dimmer rack. That is a whole different issue and will require some deeper discussion and possible a call to ETC. ETC is very helpful.



Here are examples of the Zones. You are correct you will not get all channels to have sliders. Put each light on a channel. If you have two cross lights on DC put both on the same channel. Then group them in to subs and put the board into sub mode. so if each of my down stage zones dr, dcr, dc, dcl, dl, had two front lights and one back or top light. I would record them in to the first 5 submasters, then I would do the center ones, then the up stage ones, then the cyc, then specials.

This makes it quick and easy for anyone to grab a slider and bring up a zone when the director wants the DR zone a little brighter. you can still select each channel by typing the number and roll the wheel up or down.


View attachment 9277

View attachment 9278

 

[lwinters630]

I don't want to mess this up which is why I am asking.

Patching on the board will not change the presets. However, moving lights to different dimmers or re-aiming them will. Develop a standard Rep set, tag the light with red tape, that means do not ever move. Yellow means move but put back after the show.

The presets use predefined dimmers in your unison. some of the preset can have a record function either on the wall panel or on the touch screen. I believe you can have a live look on stage and record it to a preset, but I haven't worked with them lately. There is a disk in the unison module that you will want to make a back up of. You can then work with ETC to reprogram it to how you want it based on dimmers and values.

 

[Les]

What you program on the board shouldn't affect the architectural system since it has its own memory, but I agree that every system is different and you should probably try and find out how your particular system is designed. ETC keeps good records of their installs and should be able to provide you with any information you need.

In most cases, there is no two-way communication between the board and the architectural system. The architectural system can usually listen to what the dimmers are saying and take a "snapshot" of that look for recording new presets (which may have been provided by the board), but it could care less about how the board is setup to distinguish channels/dimmers. You could unplug your current console and plug in a whole new console and odds are the Unison system won't know or really care at all. Patch info doesn't travel down the DMX line.

(Posted concurrently with the above)

 

[lwinters630]

why I prefer having a black out cue #1 is I can have the students go to it to black out, then bring up the lights I want for a Look, hit record group or cue or sub, and then nothing else will be in it.

its a little faster and easier for students then finding the S keys and hoping they didn't leave any thing else on, like the house! (put that on your preset)

 

[mrdramatic]

Loads of great information, thank you ALL.

I probably won't be moving any of the fixtures just yet, however I probably will be refocusing some of them as all of the fixtures on the electrics (with the exception of the cyc lights) are currently just facing straight down.

So tell me this, what exactly is the purpose of the touch screen panel? I mean I get it as being an easy way to turn on work lights, house, etc., but like what about the presets? Is that something that you professionals use much? I feel like no, because that creates a disconnect between being at the console or being at the wall. You would just do it from the console correct and program it to like a submaster or something correct? (in my head that would kind of be the equivalent of a preset being that it would turn on predefined fixtures at either a proportional or ...inhibitive (is that correct?) level.)

 

[mrdramatic]

The term "Unison" is new to me. Where can I educate myself more on this? All I have is the light console manual.

 

[mrdramatic]

Also, we have an an RFU. It would be great if I could use it so that I could do some of the work from the stage where I can be nearer to the fixtures I am working with (as opposed to running back and forth haha). I followed the console manual regarding using it, [plugged into ETC Remote Focusing port on right wing of stage, was sure RFU was switched to OFF before plugging in, turned RFU on....nothing.] The console manual gives no further instructions. The RFU does not power on when switching to ON. Is there something I am missing? Do I need to turn something else on/off? I am pretty sure the RFU can work simultaneously with the console so I don't think that is it. Maybe its broken? Any advice on that?

 

[DavidNorth]

The term "Unison" is new to me. Where can I educate myself more on this? All I have is the light console manual.

You either have a Unison system or a DAS [Digital Address] system.

Unison:http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/datashts/Unison_LCD_Station_vD.pdf

DAS: http://www.etcconnect.com/docs/docs_downloads/manuals/Digital_Address_(DAS)_LCD_Quick_Reference.pdf

Does your station look like one of the above?

Definitely there are no changes that can be made in the console that would affect the settings on the architectural control panel.

David

 

[sk8rsdad]

Unison is an architectural control system from ETC that has since been replaced by the Paradigm line.

Regarding presets and touch panels, they are a necessity for pretty much any venue that has casual day use. Somebody has to be able to turn on the house lights without stumbling in the dark to the control booth and powering up the lighting console. Presets are handy when running an assembly or lecture since you can turn on a few stage lights or a basic wash without the need for a lighting technician.

The interaction between the wall station and the console depends a great deal on how the entire system is configured. In my venue we use SmartLink, but the principle is the same. Our system is configured such that the console takes over all control when it is powered up and reverts back to to the wall stations on console shutdown.

 

[DavidNorth]

Also, we have an an RFU. It would be great if I could use it so that I could do some of the work from the stage where I can be nearer to the fixtures I am working with (as opposed to running back and forth haha). I followed the console manual regarding using it, [plugged into ETC Remote Focusing port on right wing of stage, was sure RFU was switched to OFF before plugging in, turned RFU on....nothing.] The console manual gives no further instructions. The RFU does not power on when switching to ON. Is there something I am missing? Do I need to turn something else on/off? I am pretty sure the RFU can work simultaneously with the console so I don't think that is it. Maybe its broken? Any advice on that?

Try plugging the RFU into the back of the console to see if it works there. If so, then find the 6-pin cable to connect the RFU port on the back of the console to the RFU jack on the wall and then try the RFU on stage again.

Let me know,

David