Help with automated lighting recommendation for a school theater

[catdotgif]

Hello,
I'm putting together a package of recommendations for an automated lighting upgrade for a school theater. It's about 350 seats, and we're looking for Toyota Corolla options-- simple, effective gear at a midrange price point. I'm recommending some LED 'PARs' to upgrade the backlight wash, two movable automated lights for adjustable specials at front of house, and a new cyc/border wash system. What I've got:

LED Pars:
ETC Colorsource PAR
Chroma-Q Color One 100
Elation SixPAR 200
Martin Rush PAR 2 RGBW Zoom

Moveable Specials:
Rosco i-Cue
Elation Satura Spot
(other suggestions welcome, looking for variable CTO+iris for mainly theatrical use)

Cyc lights:
Elation TVL Cyc
Chroma-Q Color Force 12
Chauvet Pro Ovation

Border lights (I'm thinking these can be cheap and cheerful):
Elation Sixbar 1000
Chauvet DJ Colorrail

Console:
ETC Congo Kid

Thanks for any suggestions or experience you've had with these!

 

[Les]

I use the SixPar 200's in my space and am very happy with them. A handful of those can replace a Par 64 system quite readily (we have a partial thrust and replaced two dozen-or-so 1K pars with three SixPars per side). The intensity and color are good, even for "fleshy" hues since they use RGBAW/UV* LED's. Dimming is good too. There is an initial bump when fading from zero, but this is only visible if you're looking in to the diodes. It does not show up on stage - literally just a slight fraction of a percent from LED's being off to barely glowing.

*I thought the UV feature would be kind of gimmicky, but it's actually very effective.

For the cyc, we use Altman SpectraCyc 100's and they are wonderful as well. I guess they might be out of your price range since they're not on your list.

 

[microstar]

The Altman SpectraCyc 100's are worth the money they want for them. The I-cues are real workhorses. The Chauvet Colorrails seem cheaply made and have a surprisingly narrow beamspread, which may or may not be what you want, but they are dirt cheap pricewise. The Colorsource PAR's would be a good choice for the long haul, meaning parts and service being available.
I've used all of these.

 

[soundlight]

For console I'd definitely recommend an ETC ION, the Congo is not standard fare in theaters. The ETC EOS line (Element, ION, GIO, EOS) is the preferred console range in theaters. The Element lacks the functionality needed for moving lights; the ION is the way to go.

For movers check out the Chauvet Professional MK1 Spot - just released; pricing not yet available. It doesn't have variable CTO but it does have CMY color mixing so you can get warm colors with that - you can also throw in the CTO chip on the color wheel and mix on top of that.

For cyc lights, I'd really look strongly at the Altman Spectra Cyc. Depending on your cyc height, probably the SS100 for a 350 seat space. Amazing units, great color, especially the amber - much better than the amber in lower-range units.

The Chauvet COLORrails will not give you necessary output for that kind of space; they are DJ effect lights. I've used them in an install and they work decently as effect lights (intended purpose) but as an actual drop wash I don't think they'd work great. I would go with cyc lights (Spectra Cyc 100 is my recommendation) over strip lights for this kind of space. If you wanted to go strip lights, check out the Chauvet Professional COLORado Batten 72 or COLORado Batten 144. I've used the 72s to light drops before and they're quite nice and punchy. You do need them end to end though, can't have gaps between them or else they show.

For LED toplight wash, I'm going to go unconventional and suggest some LED bricks: Chauvet Ovation B-565FC (Really, @Ford ? You guys couldn't have come up with an easier name?) with appropriate spread filters. For an overhead wash that will be most likely hidden by soft goods, you can go the way everyone went back when the Selador Vivid-R came out: the LED brick. You can put spread filters in to get the coverage you want, and the individual colored LEDs are more powerful per watt than the multi-chip LEDs. The RGBAL LEDs will be great for making colors as well as whites, and the form factor is great for toplight.

 

[TJCornish]

For movers check out the Chauvet Professional MK1 Spot - just released; pricing not yet available. It doesn't have variable CTO but it does have CMY color mixing so you can get warm colors with that - you can also throw in the CTO chip on the color wheel and mix on top of that.

Ford said the Maverick MK1 spot is about 25% less than the MK2 spot, which puts MAP of the MK1 spot around $4000, probably a bit less from a good dealer.

I just bought a couple MK2 spots and the build quality is really nice. I haven't seen the MK1, but if the feature list does what you want, I'm sure it's a great fixture.

 

[BobHealey]

If you're thinking of going the I-cue route, City Theatrical and Apollo both make 4 pin/24V irises that run on the same power supply as the I-cue. One of those makes the I-cue even more of a workhorse for me with the basic beam diameter control.

 

[catdotgif]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, it's super helpful. I'll add the Altman SpectraCyc 100 into the Cyc light options, it is a bit more expensive than the others but on the basis of this feedback it should be included in the shootout if nothing else.

I've had good luck with i-cues for the moveable specials, but I'd like to present a moving head unit as an upgrade option as well. I'm guessing the cost would have to be in the $2K range to have a chance, which I know is on the very bottom end. I'm hoping there's one on the market with a few nice features but basically intended for moveable special use. The theater doesn't have a dedicated technical staff so that's why I'm thinking a self-contained unit might be better.

The border lights would be below the cyc as a secondary wash for color gradients, and I know there will be budget pressure to cut them, so that's why I'm thinking they need to be cheap if they're going to happen at all.

 

[catdotgif]

Also, I will recommend the Ion for the console-- I didn't see it on the website initially so I thought they might have discontinued it. Thanks!

 

[soundlight]

For the movers you might have a look at the Rogue R2 Wash. Yes it's a wash light, but it zooms very narrow - down to 12 degrees. Very nice unit, gives you a great warm white as well as plenty of colors. I've used them in many different situations - including theatrical frontlight specials - and they're great. MAP is $1500 so they're definitely in the sub-$2k category. Not as hard edged as an ellipsoidal, but arguably more versatile depending on the application. 3 of those on a front pipe could also serve as front fill light; I've used 5 as front fill and theatrical specials in a mid-size proscenium space before. Not as the only front light mind you, but in addition to a front wash of LED lekos.

 

[BobHealey]

Lack of a technical staff could also make the argument towards accessories - if the I-cue breaks down, you've still got a whatever it was attached to to use as a fixed light vs a complete paperweight. Also don't have to worry about matching color temps if its the same source as all the other fixtures.

 

[RonHebbard]

Lack of a technical staff could also make the argument towards accessories - if the I-cue breaks down, you've still got a whatever it was attached to to use as a fixed light vs a complete paperweight. Also you don't have to worry about matching color temps if its the same source as all the other fixtures.

And I-Cues can be close as darn to virtually silent in normal operation even if you add a scroller to them and take the time to scroll it slowly. Two channels for fine and course pan, two channels for fine and course tilt, one for the iris, one for the scroller and a seventh for the dimmer. Tough to beat in many situations.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Les]

I forgot to mention consoles. I'll throw in another vote for Ion, although I wouldn't say the Element is dead weight when it comes to movers. The Element is what we run, and I've been able to navigate a package of 12 movers and a few dozen LEDs with relative ease. If you're just throwing basic effects, it's fine. But if you have the money or ever foresee yourself getting a larger rig of movers and/or getting really fancy, go with the Ion. You'll outgrow either one eventually, the Ion will just delay the inevitable a little while longer than the Element.

 

[JChenault]

One potential downside to the IQue Is beam spread. Some wide beam spreads are wider than the mirror. If you have short throws and need (say) a 50 degree unit you might want to consider a Right Arm.

 

[RonHebbard]

One potential downside to the IQue Is beam spread. Some wide beam spreads are wider than the mirror. If you have short throws and need (say) a 50 degree unit you might want to consider a Right Arm.

I believe Rosco suggest the I-Mirror can work with fixtures as wide as 6 x 9's / 36 Degrees so long as you slide the mirror to a specified end of its slotted mounting holes. Personally, I've only worked with I-Mirrors on 6 x 12's / 26 Degree fixtures but then perhaps I've lived a somewhat sheltered life.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[JChenault]

I believe Rosco suggest the I-Mirror can work with fixtures as wide as 6 x 9's / 36 Degrees so long as you slide the mirror to a specified end of its slotted mounting holes. Personally, I've only worked with I-Mirrors on 6 x 12's / 26 Degree fixtures but then perhaps I've lived a somewhat sheltered life.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

Not sure how well a 36 degree actually works. ( I have not tried it). I know that when I saw gafftaper.s Peter Pan that the beam spread was a just a bit wide for the unit and I thought it was a 36 degree S4. But I could be wrong. ( Gaff do you remember? )

Also note that the (As far as I know ) the unit is not designed for a 6x12 ( or a 6x anything as it only fits a 6 1/4 in slot

 

[RonHebbard]

Not sure how well a 36 degree actually works. ( I have not tried it). I know that when I saw gafftaper.s Peter Pan that the beam spread was a just a bit wide for the unit and I thought it was a 36 degree S4. But I could be wrong. ( Gaff do you remember? )

Also note that the (As far as I know ) the unit is not designed for a 6x12 ( or a 6x anything as it only fits a 6 1/4 in slot

Pardon me. I'm so old I think of 6 x 12's and 26 degree fixtures as being one and the same.
Whip me! Beat me!! Make me write bad cheques!!!
I do definitely recall Rosco being very specific about sliding the mirror fully to one end of its slotted mounting holes to have it cover the spread of a 36 degree instrument. I believe I mentioned I've only used I-Mirrors with 26 degree Source Fours. If I wasn't clear in stating this, I hope this clarifies things now. Please allow me to slink back into my hole.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Dionysus]

Not sure how well a 36 degree actually works. ( I have not tried it). I know that when I saw gafftaper.s Peter Pan that the beam spread was a just a bit wide for the unit and I thought it was a 36 degree S4. But I could be wrong. ( Gaff do you remember? )

Also note that the (As far as I know ) the unit is not designed for a 6x12 ( or a 6x anything as it only fits a 6 1/4 in slot

I've used a 36, it works fine however you will have a lot of leak on the sides of the mirror. you do get a bigger spot. I just use blackwrap

 

[gafftaper]

I love the ColorsourcePAR. I have them as down lights.

For the Cycle my vote is for the Chauvet Ovation B2805FC. Should be a little under $2,300 per 6' strip. Great price, really bright, and I love the individual cell control. And yes... @Ford did the guy with the cool names go on vacation?

I agree get an Ion, not a Congo Kid. The Congo is a rapidly fading product line. Ion/Eos is where ETC is putting its focus. Buy the product students will see every where I their careers, instead of one they will rarely see.

Not sure how well a 36 degree actually works. ( I have not tried it). I know that when I saw gafftaper.s Peter Pan that the beam spread was a just a bit wide for the unit and I thought it was a 36 degree S4. But I could be wrong. ( Gaff do you remember? )

Also note that the (As far as I know ) the unit is not designed for a 6x12 ( or a 6x anything as it only fits a 6 1/4 in slot

Yeah the 36 degree has a fair amount of over spill on an iCue. But as was said black wrap works wonders.

 

[BobHealey]

Not sure how well a 36 degree actually works. ( I have not tried it). I know that when I saw gafftaper.s Peter Pan that the beam spread was a just a bit wide for the unit and I thought it was a 36 degree S4. But I could be wrong. ( Gaff do you remember? )

Also note that the (As far as I know ) the unit is not designed for a 6x12 ( or a 6x anything as it only fits a 6 1/4 in slot

There's a 7.5" mounting plate available from Rosco that's officially for 14 degree Source 4s, but it does fit in a 6x22. Downside is of course, no latches to keep it in place.

 

[Dionysus]

There's a 7.5" mounting plate available from Rosco that's officially for 14 degree Source 4s, but it does fit in a 6x22. Downside is of course, no latches to keep it in place.

thats what tape is for

But honestly as long as its tipped up a little (mirror down a bit) and you have the safety is on, its not the end of the world. Chances of it slipping out are VERY VERY slim. Still I prefer to have a latch still to make it impossible.