House Lighting Problems

[iAdam]

Okay, heres my dilemma.
The hall which my school uses to stage performances has these lights which are operated by keys, and they take 2 minutes to warm up. There is 6 switches that are operated by key, with three at the back of the hall, and three at the front. We only have 2 keys, so the lights take a while to be turned on to start with.

Ideally, i would like to have a way of either turning them all on or off at the same time, or try and retro fit another lighting system that would be able to be dimmed.

Obviously, im in the uk, and my school is way under funded, so a solution needs to be as cheap as possible..

Has anyone got any ideas?

Adam.

 

[Les]

A few thoughts:

The lights you describe sound like HID (High Intensity Discharge). They're probably metal halide, but they could also be mercury vapor or high pressure sodium. That said, the reason they are all on separate switches is because they require different circuits. They can't be put on the same circuit, and it would require a lot of work (and money) to locate all the switches to the same place (I'm not sure why they split the switches to different areas of the room, but hey). The current rush of all those fixtures striking at once could be too much for the electrical system to handle, or something like that. Maybe they spaced the switches like that so there is a mandatory wait time between groups of lights. Total guess, yes it is.

Your best bet is to supplement the system with incandescent down lights for performances. You could use XWFL Source Four Pars if they're available in your area, regular par cans, scoops, what have you. Some people have also had success with pointing the lights upward and having the light bounce off the ceiling for an indirect feel.

Keep in mind that if you're suspending lights from the ceiling, you'll need proper rigging points installed and power run to the location. One major choice you'll want to consider is distributed dimming (dimmer packs near the lights) vs installed dimming (dimmer racks with raceways near the lights). Either way will require a lot of wire run to the ceiling.

I guess the question now is "define cheap".

 

[iAdam]

Thank you so much for your quick reply.
Bit more info on the lights: They're similar to recessed spot lights, similar to those you find in most modern homes, but obviously more power hungry and more light intensive. Theres a switch per row of lights, each row containing about 6 of the spots.

I like the idea of the par cans, mainly because we have quite a few of them. The only thing with that would be wiring it up. I have two 3 channel dimmer packs that I could use, then plant the cans on the far sides of the room pointing up. Need to get hold of some wire ramps.

Any other ideas?

 

[hobbsies]

Why not some clip lights? In the us they cost about 7 bucks each and to make them super efficient you can use the led light bulbs. You could put most or all of them on one circuit.

 

[iAdam]

I'll have a quick look at them, thanks!;]

 

[macwhiz]

You could try a relay system hooked into the switches, controlled by a single switch or an arduino

 

[Aman121]

I dont know if this will work for you, and I DON'T RECOMMEND this without at least running it by building maintenance, BUT....
You might be able to just leave all the lights on at the switches, and then turn them on or off at the breaker panel all at once. It sounds like you would be looking at 6 breakers, one for each switch. This wouldn't work for you if the lights are run off an energy management system or as said earlier have to much of a surge to be turned on all at once. (again, CHECK BEFORE MESSING WITH BREAKERS) If this doesn't work you could just leave a row or two of overheads on and fill in with the pars to make it easier on yourself. Just some thoughts.

 

[chausman]

The breakers might work. Might. And, often breakers are in a completely separate part of the building, and that can be more trouble to go find them, then just use the switches. And if you need lights quickly, running to some remote location isn't good. At least your relatively close with the switches.

Macwhiz, I'd be weary of an arduino based system. While arduino is very cool, and can do some neat things, it's still not something I'd trust. I've spent a lot of time fighting an arduino because it would get "confused", and not react correctly.


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[macwhiz]

You could just use a system with a toggle switch and relays, so a single switch turns on all of the lights

 

[Aman121]

I did say it was just an option depending on the control system/power supply and other factors; in our area it is common practice to have sub panels readily accessible in assembly halls.
I second the arguments against some kind of arduino or relay control system, as arduinos can be unreliable and any kind of system that is hacked in is generally not code and unsafe.

 

[macwhiz]

any kind of system that is hacked in is generally not code and unsafe.

They do make contactor systems made to be wired into existing circuits like the ones used in large warehouse lighting systems that would work for this and be safe and within code, we have one setup in our gym to control our lighting system, as they automatically adjust for different lighting conditions. Lighting Contactors - Schneider Electric Schneider Electric

 

[Aman121]

You are absolutly right, I was having visions of electrical taped messes someone put together with parts from digikey.

 

[derekleffew]

...There is 6 switches that are operated by key, ...

It's extremely likely that the existing keyswitches are low-voltage devices that already control relay / contactor s. Wiring a "Master switch" to the contactors would not be difficult for someone with knowledge and experience of such control systems, but is certainly NOT a task for the DIY-er or stage electrician. Seek professional advice in person from a qualified electrician in your area.

 

[JackMVHS]

What about keeping your current house lights on the entire time the hall is in use and installing DMX Dowsers over your lights to control the output of the lights.

Take a look at Wybron Inc's options here for a better idea of what I'm talking about: Wybron, Inc. - Dimming

This would allow you to switch all your lights on at the beginning of the performance and then use the dowsers and a DMX light board to control how much light is output.

I'm not sure of the cost of these units, and it could be out of your range or not a good option depending on your space.

 

[Chris15]

It's extremely likely that the existing keyswitches are low-voltage devices that already control relay / contactor s. Wiring a "Master switch" to the contactors would not be difficult for someone with knowledge and experience of such control systems, but is certainly NOT a task for the DIY-er or stage electrician. Seek professional advice in person from a qualified electrician in your area.

Out here in 230V land, key switches operating at mains voltage are way more common than those operating via low voltage arrangements when not tied into controls systems (of the microprocessor based variety).
Probably related to the lesser currents being switched for the same loads...

The way I'd be approaching this would be as many contactors as are needed installed at the switchboard and linked back to a master switch. A PLC could be added if inrush current concerns needed to be factored in to stage the contactor energisation...
This is the domain of a licenced professional electrician and no one else...