house lights on etc console
- Thread startergbirdsall
- Start date
MikeSATX
Member
First you need to find out what type of system you have. Is it a DMX or AMX system. (Yes, I have run into an AMX system). If it's DMX, then you need to locate your Stage Dimmer and run a DMX Thru cable to your house light dimmer.
Second, you need to know the last address in your stage dimmers. Do some re-addressing if you need it.
Go to your ETC console and patch your new address, program your looks and attach it to a sub master.
That's the way I've done it.
Or just have an electrician come out and rewire the power.
Second, you need to know the last address in your stage dimmers. Do some re-addressing if you need it.
Go to your ETC console and patch your new address, program your looks and attach it to a sub master.
That's the way I've done it.
Or just have an electrician come out and rewire the power.
They're still fairly common - nothing that unusual.
Esoteric
Well-Known Member
We did a job like this about 8 months ago.
We took out the switches in the booth, found and removed about half a dozen hidden junction points, reran several hundred feet of conduit to bring it up to code (it was attached to the deck), rewired about 1/3 of the lights (they were wired in odd combinations that did not matter on the switches, but mattered when adding dimmers), installed a breaker, pulled wire for the dimmer rack, installed the rack, ran a few hundred feet of conduit from the jboxes that had the homeruns to the dimmer room, pulled in that wire, ran a couple of hundred feet of conduit for control wire, and ran DMX from the booth to the dimmer room. Did the low voltage and 120V connections. It is hard to know how much it cost because it was part of a larger job, but I would estimate it was about $10k total. It could have been done for under $5k if they had done it when the building was built (although that is neither here nor there as far as your question).
Any work like this should ALWAYS be done by a licensed, insured electrician, and you should always ask your local permitting office if a permit/inspection is required for this work (a hint: it almost always is).
Sorry, when you said "banks" of dimmers it made me think of rheostat dimmers, not a dimmer rack.
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Me too !
I think Esoteric has proved a pretty good point here. It's relatively easy to say, " Oh yeah just patch this over there and make this your new patch, then make sure...." .
Messing with House Lights can create a massive number of issues the least of which is, "Are they even close to being connected to a DMX line ? "
House lights often < consult your AHJ> come under the purview of Life Safety. They must have battery back ups and emergency systems tied in so that they turn on in case of fire, power outage, or any number of other disasters. The minimum number of lights that must turn on in these situations is determined by local code. In PDX our code states a minimum of 2 foot candles for emergency egress lighting. I found this out when I installed 1/2 CTO in out lobby fixtures, " To warm things up." Fire Marshall didn't like it, luckily his Light meter < yes he walked every square inch of the lobby> didn't care.
Anyway, not to preach, but as Esoteric proved in the above post , the first answer or assumption is not always the right one.
that is exactly what i have, sorry for the confusion. i am sure i have DMX, and i have open channels.
they do not have a battery back up, we suffered a power loss and they remained off. this is a comedy club not a professional theater that used to be a resturant that was gutted and remodeled. could i get an electrician to put an edison plug on the end of each cable run at the wall and use a standard smart bar? or a simmilar dimmer?
would it be possible to make a switch that is a dmx adressable and dimmable switch that could drop into a standard light switch? could it be made small enough?
they do not have a battery back up, we suffered a power loss and they remained off. this is a comedy club not a professional theater that used to be a resturant that was gutted and remodeled. could i get an electrician to put an edison plug on the end of each cable run at the wall and use a standard smart bar? or a simmilar dimmer?
would it be possible to make a switch that is a dmx adressable and dimmable switch that could drop into a standard light switch? could it be made small enough?
Esoteric
Well-Known Member
I suppose it is possible (you could power the dimmer strips with the line side of the current setup and then put plugs on the line side in theory) but you will HAVE TO run that by your local inspectors, because something tells me that there is something about that setup that is against code somehow or it just isn't that easy. But it seems possible.
I would never engineer a solution like that myself, but if it complies with all applicable codes, the client doesn't mind, and you feel comfortable doing it then it sounds possible.
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jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
Chances are you will need to install some form of DMX compatible dimmer. Open board channels doesn't mean open dimmer channels, or easily cable runs for them. There are several options such as those from Dough Fleenor or the NSI 6000+ with DMX and Knockout connection (designed for hardwire applications such as you would need). Simply putting Edison tails at the junction boxes probably won't fly.
This has been beaten to death before. Its much more difficult then just putting in a plug. It can be done, but the NEC has some pretty specific rules that need to be followed.
See this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/22011-hooking-up-house-lights-dmx.html
Esoteric
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that is why I would NEVER do it. When we encounter this (we have done half a dozen of these) we always install a rack in an electrical room and pull homeruns to the rack.
And have another breaker box installed after the connector to keep the circuit protected. Please don't suggest something like this unless you are going to explain the many steps that come in between. It IS NOT as simple as just pulling a plate and wiring up an edison connector.
Odds are a small installed rack could be put in near the breaker panel that feeds these wall dimmers. Labor would not be that bad and the install would be fairly straight forward.
Esoteric
Well-Known Member
Wait, what? I am not sure where you are suggesting putting another breaker box. He currently has breaker -> switch -> light. I am suggesting breaker -> dimmer -> light. I don't see where the extra breaker box goes. Why would he wire up an edison connector? He would feed the conduit directly into the box and take conduit out from the box to the lights. I don't see where a connector comes into play?
An install rack might work, but you are running control as well. There are also applicable codes to the switches. You simply can't remove switches and twist the wires together and leave it. You will also need to make sure your panel has enough room for a breaker for the dimmer rack (physical and total load).
I always go with an install rack, but the NSI might just be perfect for this situation and MIGHT save a lot of money.
But ALL the suggestions above need to be done by a licensed professional.
The NSI 6000 is a portable dimmer, 1 or 2 15A/20a circuit, 4 1200W channels out. Edison in, Edison out. There is no way with that dimmer to use knockouts and allow it to keep its UL listing.
N6000 > DDS 6000 & 6000+ > Dimmers > Theatrical Equipment > Commercial Lighting > All Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products
The second you introduce a male plug to input power into building wiring, NEC 520.50 requires an over current device between the dimmer connection and the load.
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
N600P-D2K
NSI 6000+ Dimmer Pack 120V with Knockout
4 channel/1200 Watt/4800watt max. UL/C-UL Listed.
NSI 6000+ Dimmer Pack 120V with Knockout
4 channel/1200 Watt/4800watt max. UL/C-UL Listed.
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Esoteric
Well-Known Member
Yeah, this is what I looked at and it looks like it just might work. I will keep it in mind for club/restaurant applications in the future. I went and read the manual from the NSI site before I even thought about saying it MIGHT work. I would never recommend doing something not up to code.
Again, this is not something you should do unless you are a licensed professional (and I am not talking about an ETCP certification). That is why we employ Journeyman and Master licensed electricians. I know some people are touchy about this stuff, but we would never recommend you doing anything that did not at least meet minimum code requirements. We only do safe and legal (defined by national codes and enforced locally) work.
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Yup, dropping a 0 and adding 3 letters will do it every time. That you could do if the proper service was in place.
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