RickR
Well-Known Member
I see the Elation KC fixture just won an invovation award.
http://www.lightingandsoundamerica.com/news/story.asp?ID=-8OJ3V3
http://www.lightingandsoundamerica.com/news/story.asp?ID=-8OJ3V3
LED Cycs
- Thread starterRobert F Jarvis
- Start date
I was talking about the Chauvet Ovation B2805FC. I have 7 fixtures end to end for about 42 feet total coverage.
I've seen the Battens vs the Cyc 1 and the B2805's have superior throw and coverage to the Cyc 1's. The Cyc 1's might have been softer edges and less scalloping, but the amount you'd need to meet the same surface area requirements made them less desirable. The Cyc 1's seem to be an analogue to the ETC CSCyc. Both are nice with good color, but the geometry of the output just doesn't punch as much as a linear fixture will.
I don't own one, but my impression from the trade show booth demos is that the Chauvet Cyc1 is definitely best used either for a top and bottom configuration or for situations with a fairly short cyc. It's similar to the ETC Colorsource Cyc in terms of size, but the Chauvet is a lot lower profile than the ETC and I believe quite a bit brighter (at least on paper). I've never seen a head to head comparison but that would be interesting. The Cyc1 should be high up on your list if you want to have ground lighting of a cyc just because it's so much lower profile than anything else out there.
It kinda looks like a little speed bump. I think it'd make an interesting light for scenery illumination.
Brightness and coverage/reach are one thing, and yes the ColorSouce will be outperformed there by Color Force and others, but there's also color to consider. In my usual use cases lately (mostly theatrical) any fixture mentioned so far is bright enough (with both top and bottom) and I've had problems before with Color Force being too bright, where I'm starting them in a bright scene at like 12% because they're so powerful, and then trying to run a slow fade out and the fade gets choppy because 16 bits isn't enough to get from 12% to 0% in like 30 seconds. The CS having two blues makes it a superior tool if naturalistic skies are a priority for instance, whereas something including an amber will help with not only warm saturates, but also a broad color temp range of strong whites (all suited, sticking with the naturalistic skies scenario for instance, to pale horizons and sunrises/sunsets).
Last time I ordered a cyc system, for the same size cyc as OP, I chose ColorSource on top and Color Force I for the ground row for these reasons. I only rarely wished for better color matching between top and bottom. Most of the time I found the two fixtures served their respective purposes very well, and I may even try the same again soon for my current venue, though it's taller. I never had issues with focusing the CS as some mentioned. Of course the closer you space them, the smoother and brighter your coverage; when using ETC's cyc tool to figure setback and spacing, there's a slider to adjust the results according to quality of coverage. If you choose the highest quality setting, it'll be pretty hard to screw up the focus. I can't remember ever needing to Genie up to focus them. Always got straight top/bottom lines and an even wash with about 2 minutes of adjustment before flying out. And if you're dead-hanging and ever need to move them, the CS is a hell of a lot easier to handle than a 6' strip. Or try something like Spectra Cyc if looking for brighter than CS but still a sort of 'far cyc' form factor. But Spectra color isn't as good as CS in the blues, and they have the worst menu ever made.
With the CS on a 20' tall cyc you'll definitely be happier with top and bottom, but then again if you're coming from a top-only system of old school tungsten far cycs then you'll still probably be impressed with top only. Unless there's lots of stage depth to set the ground row back from the cyc, a strip format is the way to go there so you can line them up end to end very close to the cyc (plus it's a cleaner look if you're not masking the fixtures with something). I also like the versatility of having both the CS (or Cyc1s) and 6' strips around for other purposes when desired.
Last time I ordered a cyc system, for the same size cyc as OP, I chose ColorSource on top and Color Force I for the ground row for these reasons. I only rarely wished for better color matching between top and bottom. Most of the time I found the two fixtures served their respective purposes very well, and I may even try the same again soon for my current venue, though it's taller. I never had issues with focusing the CS as some mentioned. Of course the closer you space them, the smoother and brighter your coverage; when using ETC's cyc tool to figure setback and spacing, there's a slider to adjust the results according to quality of coverage. If you choose the highest quality setting, it'll be pretty hard to screw up the focus. I can't remember ever needing to Genie up to focus them. Always got straight top/bottom lines and an even wash with about 2 minutes of adjustment before flying out. And if you're dead-hanging and ever need to move them, the CS is a hell of a lot easier to handle than a 6' strip. Or try something like Spectra Cyc if looking for brighter than CS but still a sort of 'far cyc' form factor. But Spectra color isn't as good as CS in the blues, and they have the worst menu ever made.
With the CS on a 20' tall cyc you'll definitely be happier with top and bottom, but then again if you're coming from a top-only system of old school tungsten far cycs then you'll still probably be impressed with top only. Unless there's lots of stage depth to set the ground row back from the cyc, a strip format is the way to go there so you can line them up end to end very close to the cyc (plus it's a cleaner look if you're not masking the fixtures with something). I also like the versatility of having both the CS (or Cyc1s) and 6' strips around for other purposes when desired.
kerrhyphen
Member
I was just thinking of posting something along these lines based on the experiences we've had here with our CFII 72s. While they serve me very well on our larger stage for dance school cycs and toning black soft goods for concerts, the department of theater frequently runs into problems in our smaller theater when using them to light the cyc for plays. I kept getting called in to diagnose suspected programming or profile errors, only to quickly find that the real culprit was exactly what Colin has described above. Designers are often running the CFIIs in the high 20s to low 30s, with anything above 50 feeling overwhelmingly bright for theater. Couple this with even 10-15 second fades, and there is often a steppy "twinkle effect" at the end. (And just to clarify my understanding, as far as I know the CFII units only use a single address each for RGBA level, so wouldn't that make each color intensity effectively 8-bit?)
When they can, the department will use our black scrim to help even things out and reduce the apparent intensity and allow brighter levels, but after losing half the linesets in the renovation (they still cover the whole stage, but now at 10"-18" centers rather than ~6" centers), there sometimes just isn't room or a lineset where they need it. Plus sometimes the scenic designer just doesn't want to see a black scrim.
All that being said, does anybody have any experience with the Colorsource Linear fixtures? It seems like the combo of a more capable color system and a somewhat lower max brightness might actually be exactly what the department would want in a fixture, and the striplight form factor would be an easy swap for the CFII 72s. We've got a couple of cyc adapters for our Lustr2s, and they don't see much use because of the need to mask them with a border or scenic ground row, despite how good of a job they actually do... Haven't encountered the CS Linears in the wild, and I was curious if anybody had some experience before I go and arrange a demo.
For a solution not requiring a black scrim, why not tape 0.3ND (yes, gel) <gasp!> ) to each unit, cutting total light by 1/2, while extending the dimming range by 100%. Just need a 6" x 6' per strip, and needn't be fancy, just neatly taped on.
Another tip: waxed paper, from the procery store, can often be a terrific diffusion.
Another tip: waxed paper, from the procery store, can often be a terrific diffusion.
kerrhyphen
Member
Very true, and a great (and far cheaper) suggestion! We've ended up doing that if making other quick changes like tweaking cue timing or surrounding light levels don't help enough. Usually it's first spotted when the cyc looks are first being built and there's nothing else up on stage. Once the rest of the cue is there it's usually not nearly as noticeable, but if it is I'll go get the ND and pull in the lineset. (Though if I'm honest it's not true ND but R97, but it does the job...)
But the complete context is that we are currently looking into purchasing new cyc lights anyway, as we only have the one set of CFII 72s and need them constantly in both theaters. While our initial thought was just to get more CFII72s to keep inventory simple and stick with what we knew and what worked, the more we thought about it the more it seemed like this might be a chance to find a new fixture better suited for the department's theatrical uses, and leave the blinding neon punchy ones for concerts and dance schools. Hence my question about the CS Linear units, though I've noted down some other great suggestions from folks in this thread, too!
