LED lighting, I'm the DUMMIE!!

[len]

One other thought:

If you're putting truss in and have an "unlimited" budget, hang the truss with motors. Eventually, you'll want to do stuff with that truss. More lights, different lights, different focus, movers, etc. Why not make it easy on yourself and use motors now, rather than deal with schlepping new fixtures up ladder.

 

[derekleffew]

...especially considering the fact that when your console setup is more expensive than all of your fixtures combined (with a few exceptions), you're doing something wrong.

Hmmm, let's see:
Front Truss: 12x Desire D40 Lustr+ (incl $100 in lens options) @ $1600/ea = $19,200
Rear_Truss: 12x Desire D40 Vivid_. (incl $100 in lens options) @ $1400/ea = $16,800
So that means I have <$36,000 for the console. Hellooo EOS! What was I thinking before, suggesting the ~$2200 SFML?*


*I was thinking the SFML is probably the least expensive real (non-PC) console that is LED-aware, uses personalities, units can be called up by fixture number, has palettes, and so on.

 

[Morte615]

That is a TON of console for 24 led pars. I know he said "unlimited" budget, but that is just over the top when there are so many consoles that are more than capable of controlling those lights at a fraction of the cost.

Yes the ION is probably too much for what he wants to do now, but never forget those magic words, "Prepare for the future!" While yes I agree that the ION is too much for him now I would suggest starting out small in the ETC family (I am an ETC fan boy and really love the EOS Family of consoles) that way if they want to expand later, they have a lot of flexibility with the least amount of items to purchase.

For the system as described (and we really need more information about the venue before making to many recommendations) I would actually recommend the Element (which can be found for around $5,000 online) to start with. Yes it's probably more console than is needed at first but don't forget the OP also said that they board would be used by people who don't know lighting. So the good thing about a board like this is that you can set it up with cue lists and effects that can run at a button push. That way all someone has to do is look at the monitor, find an effect they like for the part of the song they are in, then push GO. And the EOS software is easy to learn and program so you can make changes as wanted/needed or, once comfortable, start to program yourself.

Yes this board is pretty powerful, and yes he only has 24 LED lights (so far) but for the flexibility and ability to make operation simple so that "just" about anyone who walks in can use the system I think something along these lines are the way to go.

 

[LXPlot]

Hmmm, let's see:
Front Truss: 12x Desire D40 Lustr+ (incl $100 in lens options) @ $1600/ea = $19,200
Rear_Truss: 12x Desire D40 Vivid_. (incl $100 in lens options) @ $1400/ea = $16,800
So that means I have <$36,000 for the console. Hellooo EOS! What was I thinking before, suggesting the ~$2200 SFML?*


*I was thinking the SFML is probably the least expensive real (non-PC) console that is LED-aware, uses personalities, units can be called up by fixture number, has palettes, and so on.

Front Truss=12x Elation Opti Tri Par @ 500$ each is 6000$
Back Truss=12x Elation Opti Tri Par @ 500$ each is 6000$
=12,000$ total. Gern priced the Ion package at 15k. In this case, SFML is in fact what I'd suggest. In most cases, Price of fixtures should far outweigh price of control. But if, for some inexplicable reason, I have a gig with 100 PAR64s at 30$ a piece, you can bet that I want a used Express48/96 even if it costs more than 3000$.

 

[derekleffew]

...But if, for some inexplicable reason, I have a gig with 100 PAR64s at 30$ a piece, you can bet that I want a used Express48/96 even if it costs more than 3000$.

Does the cost of the dimmers factor anywhere in your equation?
I've run a 12-pack from an Expression3; and a 48-way rack from my PocketConsole, so am not sure that means anything. (Also once had a grandMA running shoebox dimmers, but I know that doesn't mean anything. )

Let's move away from this "console should cost this much" and return to helping the OP determine the most appropriate gear. Although, I think we're in a holding pattern until we are provided more information.

 

[LXPlot]

(Also once had a grandMA running shoebox dimmers, but I know that doesn't mean anything. )

Please tell this story, it sounds like something that would be quite enjoyable to hear.

Does the cost of the dimmers factor anywhere in your equation?

Whoops, complete forgot that...well, I still have much to learn.

 

[josh88]

If you saw a show and thought it was good, would you change your opinion if you found out they used an ADJ lighting console?

yes it would change my opinion. I'd be more impressed after finding that out.

 

[bishopthomas]

First of all, hello Postmaster, welcome to Control Booth. I'm originally from Jonesboro, so good to see a fellow Arkansan around these here parts. If you can't neatly run/hide the cable to link the two trusses (I would think that would be a better option than two lines dropping down) then you'll want an opto splitter, as suggested. Since the operators are going to be novices I would suggest getting some kind of console that will allow you to preset scenes. I would do two zones in the front, two zones in the back (probably every other fixture addressed the same), save different colors to playbacks, and tell the operators to go nuts with it. Simple and effective, so easy even a club owner can do it.

 

[MarshallPope]

It looks like you are in Camden; I just wanted to offer that if you need a little help with anything, I wouldn't mind coming down from Arkadelphia for the cost of gas or lunch. With this advice though, you should have it covered. It's really not as difficult as it seems once you get your head wrapped around it.

 

[Chris15]

Ok, so I'm a bit confused here...

At some point a cable loom needs to depart each truss to connect with electrical juices and data, yes?
And at some point or another those data runs need to converge on a point so they can get their data, yes?

So where's the big issue in looping data between trusses?
No one ever said that had to be done in a straight line aerially...
There's no issue if you wanted to use a hundred metres of cable between them the DMX won't care though a terminator might be more essential than normal.
So I'd just drop a second DMX line in the reverse direction off one of the trusses (probably the front one), route as needed and feed truss 2 that way.

Or have I missed something that renders this a dumb idea?

 

[mstaylor]

Ok, so I'm a bit confused here...

At some point a cable loom needs to depart each truss to connect with electrical juices and data, yes?
And at some point or another those data runs need to converge on a point so they can get their data, yes?

So where's the big issue in looping data between trusses?
No one ever said that had to be done in a straight line aerially...
There's no issue if you wanted to use a hundred metres of cable between them the DMX won't care though a terminator might be more essential than normal.
So I'd just drop a second DMX line in the reverse direction off one of the trusses (probably the front one), route as needed and feed truss 2 that way.

Or have I missed something that renders this a dumb idea?

You are not missing a thing, I suggested it in an earlier post. Run it up one tower, accross the truss, back down and then up the second. It seems simple enough to me and saves another link in the chain.

 

[Chris15]

Apologies, I thought I had read through everything but apparently I didn't read it very closely...

 

[Les]

The problem with only one channel is the boss is very big on aesthetics and wants two separate trusses running the width of the stage and does NOT want a wire linking one truss to the next truss, like a dmx daisy chained from one truss to the next truss.

I think it's this that is causing the confusion.

The OP then said this:

The boss IS willing to pay almost anything for aesthetics, and the pockets are deep. The boss wants the truss and board because it looks good. I have told her that we can do this just as good without the truss ($8,000) or a light board, but she likes the looks. It is nice to have a boss that doesn't worry about budget.

Which has caused some members to begin recommending top-of-the-line consoles.

 

[bishopthomas]

It's always funny to see people project their wishlists onto someone who can actually fulfill them, whether or not it is a good recommendation.

 

[emac]

Welcome to the booth!


Now for your original question. I would recommend getting an ETC element, it has all the features that you are looking for and looks professional enough that your boss should be pleased. And as said before the learning curve is not that huge, ETC has great training resources available.

Now for the lights and truss; I agree with what was said before about putting motors on the truss. Not only does that allow you to refocus, add fixtures, and troubleshoot much easier, you can also then change the height of the trim to add effect to the show. For example for one show you might want the US truss farther down so that you can use some of the fixtures on that truss as audience blinders. But for a slower show you might not want that so you could just raise it back up.

I would look into using both recommendations of LED fixtures. ETC D40's for your DS front light truss and Chauvet PARs for your US backlight truss. That way you can have the 7x Color system for your front light (which will give you much better face light) and still not brake the bank completely. I would also sit down with your boss and discuss possibly putting some lights/effects on stage (as mentioned before). I would think about either some LED strips (think Coemar or Chauvet) or an array of LED pars or even some movers (though that opens up a whole other world of crazyness, and you might want to mount those on the truss), but I really think that you will find your self wanting effects on stage.

As for whether or not to get an Opto Splitter; I say just get it. Even if you end up running DMX between the two trusses you could still use the Opto to send an extra line to the stage and the trusses or something along those lines. With an Enttec Opto not being very expensive you might as well buy it when you can!

Also don't forget that you can daisy chain the power on most Chauvet fixtures as well as the ETC D40s (10 on a 15amp circuit, not sure how many Chauvet fixtures but it should be similar) that way you can run just one power run to each truss and keep your cabling really clean.

 

[Esoteric]

Yeah, we are trying to get into the club/restaurant market more. We currently do a couple a year, but would love to do more.

For me the key in places like restaurants is to keep things neat and tidy and make sure it fits the aesthetics of the place.

I like software with touch screens in places like that. Just easier to use.

Mike

 

[postmaster]

THANKS!!!

THANKS, THANKS, THANKS!!! for all the help. I was in a meeting all morning and did not have time to take a look. I will take a look this afternoon at all the suggestions and I know I will have additional questions. You don't know just how much I appreciate the help, really saving me.

 

[postmaster]

Stage Dimensions

Here are the dimensions:

30ft wide x 15ft deep

We want to put the truss 15ft above stage height.

We have two 20 amp circuits, on for the front and one for the back.

This is an outdoor stage.

One of the things I have to keep in mind is that we have to have outdoor fixtures. I have done some research and they do make outdoor LED fixtures. We will bring the light board in when not having a show.

If anybody has any ideas on the truss height please comment. The stage dimensions are set in stone, literally.

Doug

 

[gafftaper]

Wait do you already have this truss installed or do you need to buy it as well?

Free standing truss, 30' wide, and outdoors is not something to take lightly. We had a lot of people die this summer due to outdoor truss collapses.
Does it need to have a roof?
Does it need to support speakers as well?

Truss is by far the most critical and most dangerous part of your project. You need a real pro involved to make sure the truss is done correctly.

 

[postmaster]

No, not purchased yet and we know how dangerous it can be. The owner of this place owns a fairly large commercial construction company (mostly large defense industry work) and has engineers and a huge fabrication plant. The only way they are able to build this thing at a cost no else could afford. I trust their engineers know how to design this thing. I am currently getting all the weights that this needs to support.

Not a traditional roof, they want to use outdoor sails.

Yes, it will also support 4 speakers.

They are doing the wind loads for the sails and all the weight loads for the equipment and designing for 1.5 times the total load. This project is way over what the average place could afford because they do everything "in house".
Doug

Wait do you already have this truss installed or do you need to buy it as well?

Free standing truss, 30' wide, and outdoors is not something to take lightly. We had a lot of people die this summer due to outdoor truss collapses.
Does it need to have a roof?
Does it need to support speakers as well?

Truss is by far the most critical and most dangerous part of your project. You need a real pro involved to make sure the truss is done correctly.