Lighting arrangement

Our 500 seat school auditorium needs to have the lights rearranged into a more stable and usable configuration. On the front 2 rows over the stage, we have 8 large Fresnel, and 10 smaller Fresnel fixtures. Would it be better to put equal numbers of each on each row (Small, Large, Small, Large, Small, Large, Small, Large, Small) or put 5 of the larger fixtures on the front row, the other 3 larger ones on the second row and fill in both rows with the smaller Fresnel lights? We also have a row of Ellipsoidals on a catwalk in front of the stage. Thanks!
 
A few follow up questions:
What are the rough dimensions of your stage area?
How many circuits do you have available?
How many ellipsoidals are on that catwalk?
Any other lighting fixtures to work with?
Are you mostly lighting assemblies or school plays/events?
 
There are more than a few questions to ask before digging into such a project. My recommendation is to find a local to take it on. A college professor or grad student? Perhaps someone from a professional theater? Being able to see the space and the results of the changes is critical!
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Each fixture type does certain things better than others. Ellips do long distances wwithout spilling all over the space. Fresnels are very soft edged so the blend easily and they go wide enough to used close to actors and scenery. Different sizes usually means different wattage lamps, but you must know, not guess.

Pictures and key measurements would let us be more helpful.
 
Our 500 seat school auditorium needs to have the lights rearranged into a more stable and usable configuration. On the front 2 rows over the stage, we have 8 large Fresnel, and 10 smaller Fresnel fixtures. Would it be better to put equal numbers of each on each row (Small, Large, Small, Large, Small, Large, Small, Large, Small) or put 5 of the larger fixtures on the front row, the other 3 larger ones on the second row and fill in both rows with the smaller Fresnel lights? We also have a row of Ellipsoidals on a catwalk in front of the stage. Thanks!
@jazzman1960
- How deep is your stage, from the proscenium or main curtain line to your upstage wall, cyclorama or sky cloth?
- How many lighting pipes do you have in total behind your prosc'?
- Are you planning / do you need to use all of your fresnels for front lighting?
- Are you planning to provide a wash of only one color or are you hoping to light your stage in several areas across and in more than one color?
- Are planning on lighting the down stage portion of your stage behind your proscenium separately from further up stage?
- Are you planning to use any of your fresnels for back lights?
- Are your two sizes of fresnels different wattages, such as your smaller fresnels are lamped at 500 watts per fixture and your larger fresnels lamped at 1,000 or 2,000 watts per fixture?
- Have you considered using your smaller fresnels for front lighting and your larger fresnels for back lights?
- Have I asked too many questions? Should I shut the phuque up and phucough now??
Guard your health.
Season's Best!!!
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
I realized as soon as I hit post reply, that I had asked too broad of a question.

Our stage is approximately 45ft wide by 30ft deep.
We have 3 light bars overhead.
All lights are conventional, no LED.
The original configuration when built 3 years ago had 8 scoops (which are also still available for use) along the back row and our assortment of Fresnels on the middle and front rows (I don't remember how they were configured).
There are 11 working ellipsoidals on the catwalk and 2 follow spots.
There is one ellipsoidal missing it's insides.
I am planning on using pairs of ellipsoidals on the catwalk to light 5 areas of the stage from the front.
The fresnels have a variety of bulb wattages, 500, 750, 1000, in them, we will try to standardize them in the near future.
We have 40 or 42 dimmers available, shared by all 4 rows of lights.
Lighting needs are various, as it is with most school auditoriums, so looking at a functional and easily adapted setup to quickly fill most needs, but yet be able to change a few things around if necessary for drama production needs.
I am still learning about what to do with gels, want to get everything working correctly first, then go to the next steps.

Thanks!
 
I realized as soon as I hit post reply, that I had asked too broad of a question.

Our stage is approximately 45ft wide by 30ft deep.
We have 3 light bars overhead.
All lights are conventional, no LED.
The original configuration when built 3 years ago had 8 scoops (which are also still available for use) along the back row and our assortment of Fresnels on the middle and front rows (I don't remember how they were configured).
There are 11 working ellipsoidals on the catwalk and 2 follow spots.
There is one ellipsoidal missing it's insides.
I am planning on using pairs of ellipsoidals on the catwalk to light 5 areas of the stage from the front.
The fresnels have a variety of bulb wattages, 500, 750, 1000, in them, we will try to standardize them in the near future.
We have 40 or 42 dimmers available, shared by all 4 rows of lights.
Lighting needs are various, as it is with most school auditoriums, so looking at a functional and easily adapted setup to quickly fill most needs, but yet be able to change a few things around if necessary for drama production needs.
I am still learning about what to do with gels, want to get everything working correctly first, then go to the next steps.

Thanks!
@jazzman1960 More queries and assumptions:
- Your follow spots aren't on your catwalk. (As I thought you were saying when I first read your post.)
- You're planning to light only your apron OR the entire depth of your stage five areas wide from two angles using the ten ellipsoidals on your FOH catwalk?
- Can I assume your 40 or 42 functional dimmers route to your circuits via a telephone operator's style 'hard patch' and you have no electronic soft patching in your system?
- Can I assume your 8 scoops all faced up stage and were intended to wash your up stage wall or sky drop in three or four colors?
I'm startled to read this was "The original configuration when built 3 years ago". If you'd told me it was originally built in the 1960's or 1970's I'dve been far less surprised.
I foresee a challenge in your immediate future.
Posting from north of Donald's walls.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
You're starting off on the right foot with some things (like area lighting), but you're getting in to the weeds with others (arranging fresnels large, small, large, small) since that's more of an aesthetic thing.

Please don't be taken aback by the fact that I will answer questions you didn't ask :).

I suggest you do two things first.

1). Note the differences between your large and small fresnels; find what beam angles you have available in your ellipsoidals.
2). Build a workable plot based on the inventory you have at your disposal.

What you're looking for is a repertory plot. Something that can be used for many events, and slightly adjusted to accommodate others. As you imply, rep plots usually start by breaking the stage in to areas: say, 5 across and 3 deep. However, this layout depends entirely on the layout of your stage. For example, my stage has a large apron and requires 3 areas up front, and then two rows of five from the proscenium back. Figure out how many areas you want (odd numbers across are good as you want a center area), and then balance that with how many instruments you have to light those areas. Don't be too concerned with how things were originally laid out. It's doubtful that there was much rhyme or reason to it.

In its simplest form, an area can be lit by two ellipsoidals in the catwalk and one fresnel from overhead. Some people swear by (or are required due to inventory) front lighting an area using only one ellipsoidal straight-on from the FOH catwalk -- and it sounds like you may fall in to this category. What works for you depends on what you like best and of course, what your inventory is capable of supporting. One back light per area is great if you can, but maybe not something to focus too much effort on for the time being.

When you mentioned arranging the fresnels in a "large, small, large, small" configuration, my thought is that it will look nice on the batten, but that may be the only benefit you receive. Large fresnels are typically intended for longer throws, and small fresnels are generally best at shorter throws. I would look to see which size of fresnel gives you the most usable pool of light on stage, and use them to top light your areas (you're generally shooting for 8-10' across per area). Potentially, whatever is left over can be used for color wash, back light, side light, put on the meatrack for "as-needed" use, etc. You may even add your larger fresnels to Electric 1 to front light the areas in the back that you don't have enough ellipsoidals for.

Color washing:
If you're starting out, I probably wouldn't stress over giving every single area the ability to be it's own RGB color. Instead, see if you can at least divide your stage in to halves or thirds. I rarely need *this* area to be red. Instead, I'll focus a special in that case. Maybe you can get fancy as time permits, or as you encounter situations which "tell" you what features you need to add to your rep plot over time.

I agree with @RonHebbard that your scoops were probably intended to light a backdrop. That certainly is an antiquated way of doing it, but it can be effective as long as scoop lamps continue to be available. Scoops also make good worklights. Nothing worse than all your ellipsoidals and fresnels being used for arbitrary things like orchestra rehearsals, non-tech rehearsals, etc.

To get started on gels, I have been liking L162 for top light. It's a neutral, almost light bastard amber, but it isn't as orange-y as Rosco's R02 Light Bastard Amber.
From FOH there are a few basic mixes such as R54, R33 for the bouncier/contemporary shows, and R02, R60 for the more traditional "box set" shows. It's all about personal taste though, and I try to experiment with different front light colors any time I get the chance. But having those staple gels in your inventory for lighting flesh tones is a good start. Since you may have to light each area with a single front light, you will probably want to stick to something more neutral. Otherwise your stage will look pinkish, orangeish, blueish, etc.

And of course with all things lighting, there's a lot of personal preference mixed in. What I just described is basically a McCandless or Modified McCandless approach. A lot of us use it, and plenty others can't stand it! But I think that in your situation, it is the best place to start.
 
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"You may even add your larger fresnels to Electric 1 to front light the areas in the back that you don't have enough ellipsoidals for"

This. First stage electric, inside your proscenium. Can benefit from the same two instruments per zone, and gel scheme as your front ellipsoidals.

Gels, great recent thread on this. (I learned a lot.)

If you are also the one purchasing replacement lamps, great older threads on lamps and some on more common individual instruments. (helped me with my HS volunteer work)

There is so much packed into the response by Les. Having the pros on this board help us amateurs out has been great.
 
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I'd also add, having worked in some old spaces with limited inventory, to not be afraid of using fresnels as front light. You do have the possibility of spill, but not sure how far away your catwalk is.
Also from the respect of using the space for generic school functions, sometimes the accurately focused ellipsoidals create overly specific pools of light.
Another also is - do school events always use the stage? I've worked shows at high schools where I had to maintain a rep plot that also lit in front of the stage, because many more intimate meetings didn't want the overwhelming feel of presenting from the stage.
Mentioned above was work light. Considering your inventory consists of many different fixtures, finding those with the cheapest/ longest life/ brightest output replacement lamps and use those as no-color/ worklights.
 
I realized as soon as I hit post reply, that I had asked too broad of a question.

Our stage is approximately 45ft wide by 30ft deep.
We have 3 light bars overhead.
All lights are conventional, no LED.
The original configuration when built 3 years ago had 8 scoops (which are also still available for use) along the back row and our assortment of Fresnels on the middle and front rows (I don't remember how they were configured).
There are 11 working ellipsoidals on the catwalk and 2 follow spots.
There is one ellipsoidal missing it's insides.
I am planning on using pairs of ellipsoidals on the catwalk to light 5 areas of the stage from the front.
The fresnels have a variety of bulb wattages, 500, 750, 1000, in them, we will try to standardize them in the near future.
We have 40 or 42 dimmers available, shared by all 4 rows of lights.
Lighting needs are various, as it is with most school auditoriums, so looking at a functional and easily adapted setup to quickly fill most needs, but yet be able to change a few things around if necessary for drama production needs.
I am still learning about what to do with gels, want to get everything working correctly first, then go to the next steps.

Thanks!
Les has said it well!
I would add some thoughts. From front of house (FOH) use 5 ares down stage and 5 mid stage. From 1st elec use 3 or 5 for up stage. 5 others for back, down light to down stage. 2nd elec 5 for down, back to mid stage. The rest for side or fills.
Have fun!
 
I agree that bringing in a local professional, even an event lighting person, would probably help you out... a lot.
Event guys are used to walking into a venue with whatever tools they have on-hand, and making it work.
A local LD may give you something more refined... but (depending on the needs of your productions, which do not sound overly complicated) may give you something that is less "Music Teacher Friendly" to run, or maintain.

I think you're on the right track... I would probably divide my stage into 2 rows of 5 front light areas. But, I don't see an easy way to match the quantity of Top light areas to your Front light areas.

Also, Les' post (above) is gold.

in my head, this is how it would work:
10 Lekos in the Catwalk to focus in 5 areas across the front of the stage. 2 lights per area, cross focused. pale color pallet (either SL Warm, and SR cool, or just one uniform slightly warm color like R33). Fixtures from the same angle want to overlap at least 30%, so that somebody walking between areas remains fairly evenly lit (they are brighter at the center than the edge, so they can overlap at the edges to maintain similar brightness levels). Shutter cut the lights to the edge of the stage, but be prepared to pull those shutters open to be able to add light in front of the stage when the director or music teacher incorporates that space into the performance. I agree with Les' color suggestions.
the reason I say one color from each side is so that for some scenes, you can have the Warm system be the dominant fixtures, and use the cool to fill in, so that you can always see the performers mouths (they're never in complete shadow)… And for other scenes you can light the opposite way (for evening scenes, for instance). Finally, you can light the entire stage brightly from both sides , with slight variations in color, when required. This is how you can achieve more varied and interesting looks without having to double-hang your fixtures (1 warm + 1 cool from each side).

1 Leko kept as a spare, or for a special. (keep this hung in the catwalk near where you're likely to need it... if it goes in a closet, it will get broken, or lost, or both).

10 small Fresnels on your DS electric to make 5 US front light areas... color the same as the Catwalks. Try to get all of the same (500w or 750w) lamps in these. If you can't, you can either put the brighter ones in one color system, and dimmer in the other, or use the brighter lamps in the center areas (as they are more likely to be the "center of attention").

8 large Fresnels, as your toplight. neutral color (Like R54 which has pretty high transmission and can appear warm or cool, depending on your other lighting)

Scoops stay on your Cyc... But if you can spare one or two, you can keep them out as work/FOH washes.

I hope that helps,
Good luck!!

-Ford
 
To continue the thought about multiple use, consider that your band program will want strong down light. Most vocal programs will want good front light. Theatrical use will want to move things around, so try to create a versatile rep plot that allows for simple adjustment (or additives when you get the $$) for those folks.
 
Also some gel colors “eat” lots more photons than others so get yourself a swatch book or an online table to see the variations. Often a bigger lamp size is needed with more saturated gels - for example blues for night scenes
 
If you find a budget I would also suggest to start adding LED pars or LED par zooms as top / side light. Your band will appreciate the fact that they are not being baked by 13,500 watts of heat. Yes I know that's not on one spot but I remember the first time I swapped out Fresnel for LED at a High School, the band/orchestra could not believe how much cooler it was. Of course you get the full range of colors. Next swap out the scoop on the cyc with LED. Sometimes schools have energy grants for converting to LED or if any of those lights have white asbestos power cords it would fall under safety issue that may prompt a budget. This may be off in the future but it is always great to get the wheels turning.
 

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