Lighting upgrade ideas?

[jagwirez]

Hey all. I wanted to get some ideas on what kind of upgrades you all suggest, this is an open-idea discussion, I'm just looking for the kinds of products you guys recommend. Here is the environment.

This is a contemporary church, seats 2000. We have a black-box theater style stage. Proscenium is 46ft wide, 21 ft to back of stage and about 15 feet to front of stage. 3 electrics, 3rd being for cyc. Catwalk with 3 rows of runways.

Equipment:

4 - Elation Design Spot 575e
2 - Seachanger Wash (angled about 30º on 1st electric to wash band)
1 - Le Maitre Radiance Hazer
22 - ETC Source Four (various lens sizes)
48 - Par 64 1000w


We basically started with par cans, then received a budget to upgrade to some automated fixtures. Now I am looking for some more stuff to enhance our stage in the future. One thought was to get a couple moving washes to help illuminate the band, we've been stearing away from using the par cans too frequently.

But I'm all ears for some of the things that you all like. I guess another question is LED lighting. Our electrics usually hang about 18ft high if that helps. Thanks.

 

[gafftaper]

We have a black-box theater style stage. Proscenium is 46ft wide,

Umm... you can't really do that. I'm guessing you just mean that the stage flat, painted black and it's a flexible use design, instead of being carpeted with lots of built in levels like lots of churches.


Most important question: What is your approximate budget?

Personally I would start by expanding on what you already have instead of adding something new. 2 Seachanger wash lights can't do much. 12 can be amazing. Same with the Elation design spots, 4 is nice but 8 or 12 would be a lot more useful.

 

[icewolf08]

The other major question is what your primary use is. Are you lighting church services or are you lighting other productions or both? Is your goal more illumination or more special effects? As Gaff said, you probably want to first expand on what you have, and then if you can tell us what your goals are for upgrading we will be able to be of more insight.

 

[jagwirez]

Ok, we don't have a budget yet, once we start a fund and see what that brings us, then we'll know the budget. I am just seeing if there are any nice products you like. Great advice on adding more of what we have, I will keep that in my mind.

I am focusing more on special effects, color, aesthetics etc.

 

[epimetheus]

My church just finished an lighting upgrade. We had a reasonable complement of conventionals (S4's, S4 Jr's, and Opti-par's), plus 2 Mac 500's. We added 10 Mega-lite N-E color Cannons, 4 Mega-lite Axis LED's and 4 Mega-lite Axis 500's (basically Mac 500 knockoffs). We're still figuring out the best way to use the new movers. We're using the color cannons as wash and accent fixtures on our upstage wall. 6 of the color cannons wash the wall and the other 4 have 10 degree lens for uplighting accents from the base of the wall. The color cannons alone have made a huge difference in the look of our services. Of course, we have almost no color before, minus the Mac 500's, which weren't used on Sundays, just the Saturday comtemporary service. I'm looking into some Seachangers or the like to wash our choir for next year's budget.

What console are you using? That makes a huge difference in what kind of upgrades you should consider. We had an Express 48/96. We had to include a new ETC Ion as part of this upgrade. It doesn't make much since to add a bunch of intelligent (I know, not the best term) fixtures if you don't have a board capable of controlling them easily. I'd assume you have a reasonably capable board since you have 4 movers, but considering we were running our Mac's off an Express, I know that's a bad assumption.

 

[gafftaper]

An excellent point there from Epimetheus. You don't want to get too much deeper into intelligent lighting without a board designed for it. Best choices would be:
-any of ETC or Strand's new boards if you plan to stay more theatrical
-Grand Ma or Whole Hog if you want to really go crazy with the moving lights some day more rock concert style.

I can't tell you how awesome it is having a total of 20 Seachangers in my rig with a Strand classic palette in the booth. It takes less than 10 seconds to change my stage wash from Rosco's Skeleton Exotic Sangria to Apollo's Bluetylicious. That's SWEET.

 

[shiben]

Another question that I have is in your church environment, how "contemporary" do you want to go? As someone who grew up in a church with an inventory of 75 S4s (it was one of the first places in town to get them, kind of cool), but where all of them were NC and washing the stage, I have seen a nice inventory be used for that reason alone. Alternatively, I have been to a church where there was a mosh pit, all the lights wiggled, and the pastor preached from what was effectively a calm circle pit. Im guessing you fall in the middle of these extremes, but where? I would say, adding at least 6 more seachangers would probably be a big plus. Another question: Why steer away from the PAR cans? If you want some intense color washes, you can probably make 2 or 3 good ones with them, and your only expense is really gel. As for moving washes to illuminate the band, I am personally not that big of a fan. At the mosh church, it worked, but they also went into big looks at the chorus of songs, with lots of profiles ballyhooing, and strobes, and the washes served to give structure to the air space as well (for all you church goers, imagine "Blessed be the Name of the Lord" with screaming, heavy distortion, and a double bass drum, light it in your head. Thats about right). I tend to go for washes that are static, and profiles that move. Somewhere there is an article with the Gafftaper method, I feel like it might apply to you a bit. Read up and see if there is anything you find useful there.

 

[tcahall]

Do you believe that you can raise a substantial budget for lighting? If so, I would suggest that you start from a blank sheet of paper. Pick a console, and design a entire rig from, essentailly, movers. Obviously, some S4s, cycs, etc will make more sense for spefic jobs. If you believe you can do a substantial raise, this gives you something to build toward.

If you are thinking of something more incremental, the previous advice is great. I would recommend you look at the Chamsys line of consoles as well.

Tim.

 

[jagwirez]

We have an ETC Ion 1500 which we bought with the last upgrade. We try to be pretty dynamic with moving lights, washes, aerial beams, but there is that limit as we have a mixed crowd. We are slowly adjusting the audience to a rock type worship. This is a college town (WVU) so we do what we can to pull the students in. I know this is hard for anyone to answer since you are not here, but how do you suggest I use the pars along with the seachangers. We can usually get 3 to 4 colors on the band (usually 6 spots) and then any color with the seachangers (nice wash, not very bright, but does color very nicely)

Also, to answer further back in this thread. We have weekend services, then we bring in concerts a couple times a year, and also around Easter we put on a play, The Passion. This is a full production put on by church members. We usually have about 60-70 cast members altogether. I know this is definitely great use for our par cans. Thanks again for everyone's help, I am taking it in as it comes.

 

[chris325]

Depending on your budget, an investment in color scrollers may be a good option, especially with a large number of S4s and par cans. LEDs might also be an alternative for either cyc or wash lighting.

 

[epimetheus]

As I am just starting to play with led's in a wash situation, I can say that I'm having a hard time seeing how I can incorporate scrollers. I think once you have some of that kind of color mixing ability, anything other than rgb or cmy is just handicapping me again. I suppose you could do a custom gel string that corresponds with your most used colors, but it still holds you back to what's on your string. Seachangers or something like Apollo's MXR scroller seem like the most cost effective complement to led's. Maybe I'm just being to picky?

 

[len]

A lot of questions to be answered:

1. Budgets. And I mean not only $$, but do you have the room to hang things? do you have the electricity to power them? dimmer channels? data channels? desk channels? Is your rigging capable of handling more weight? Every time you hang a new fixture, there's a domino effect of things it will change. So bear that in mind.

2. Do you need them?

3. Make a list of the things that you're constantly saying "I wish we could do more _____" and figure out what the best fixtures to fill those needs are.

4. If you get visiting choirs/ministers in, you might talk to them about things to improve.

5. IIRC there's a whole chat board somewhere that deals with the more contemporary houses of worship. Maybe post this kind of question there as well.

 

[tristanpants]

Have you give any thought to up lighting the perimeter of the entire main area of your church. It will be less expensive and you can change the ambiance of your seating area giving the stage a more dramatic effect.

 

[AdamBair]

LED lights like ColorBlasts can add a lot of versatility to your rig. They are kind short on throw, but can be stuck almost anywhere as wash lighting. They are only 50 watts each, so you can get 60 of them on stage and run them off two 20 amp breakers (standard wall outlet) But the need three DMX channels each, so you will need a good moving light board for something like that. That would give you a different, more subtle kind of control then investing the same cash into moving lights. Ideally you want both.