New Console

[gafftaper]

First off I think buying an express at this point is a very poor idea. While it's a good console that will be in service for many more years if not decades, it's ancient technology. Saying that you have no plans to buy movers is a poor reason to buy old technology. What if in 10 years you decide to purchase a bunch of LED's to save on energy costs? It's not impossible with the Express but definitely more difficult. Who knows what the future may hold tech wise. Buying 15 year old technology makes no sense. If you are that set on just buying a basic 2 scene preset then save yourself some money and buy a used Express or another brand.

Secondly I want to remind everyone that the comparison of ION/EOS to the 300/500 is invalid. The 300/500 are no longer made... and by the way the Express is due for a major overhaul if not replacement too. The new Strand consoles Palette and Light Palette are excellent console choices and have been discussed in other threads. Both new generations of ETC and Strand have very similar capabilities. The biggest differences are more a matter of what you like in a physical desk and if you are a "Strand/Etc guy".

Main differences:

Strand you choose a specific console layout.
ETC you buy a base and add submaster wing panels.

Strand uses a variation of the Horizon software
ETC uses a variation of the Obsession software.

Strand only puts encoders on the high end consoles
ETC only gives you submaster options -no 2 scene preset version

Other than that what they can't do is only limited to the creativity of the software updates at this point. I think it's quite safe to say that neither console is likely to run into a feature that the other brand can do but they can't. Both consoles are excellent. Get some demos and decide what you like best that fits your budget.

 

[SteveB]

Good comparasion,

One major difference I saw on a quickie look at the Strand site is that with Ion you can get LCD touch screens, where as with Strand, you have to get into the upper Light Palette series to gain that kind of control. That may be a huge issue price wise, but I'm not really sure if that means anything, as much is dependent on how the console is designed and laid out.

SB

 

[gafftaper]

Good comparasion,
One major difference I saw on a quickie look at the Strand site is that with Ion you can get LCD touch screens, where as with Strand, you have to get into the upper Light Palette series to gain that kind of control. That may be a huge issue price wise, but I'm not really sure if that means anything, as much is dependent on how the console is designed and laid out.
SB

I've been told my Classic Palette can handle a touch screen. I believe that the Light Palettes may come with one standard while the basics don't. So far I don't see much need for the touch screen with the palette. The combination of key pad and mouse seems to do just about everything.

I do have to say that there are some REALLY awkward soft key combinations in the current Strand software build. For example to do an intensity effect you simply select the instruments you want to work with and press the soft key marked "effects". To do a movement effect you have to select the instruments you want to use then hold down shift while selecting soft key 2 or 3 twice. Huh? Yep you read that right. The effects soft key doesn't give you access to color or movement effects from the effects generator. I'm assuming this is going to be fixed in a future software update... which is the beauty of both Strand and ETC consoles... just about anything can be fixed in a software update.

 

[jmabray]

The biggest differences are more a matter of what you like in a physical desk and if you are a "Strand/Etc guy".
Main differences:
Strand you choose a specific console layout.
ETC you buy a base and add submaster wing panels.

Strand uses a variation of the Horizon software
ETC uses a variation of the Obsession software.

Not true. The syntax is similar to the obsession, but only similar, not the same. Every line of code in the EOS/ION console line was new - written from scratch. There is not a bit of Obsession code in there. It is not a variation at all. It is new and different.

Strand only puts encoders on the high end consoles
ETC only gives you submaster options -no 2 scene preset version

Other than that what they can't do is only limited to the creativity of the software updates at this point. I think it's quite safe to say that neither console is likely to run into a feature that the other brand can do but they can't. Both consoles are excellent. Get some demos and decide what you like best that fits your budget.

 

[gafftaper]

Sorry Jmabray, that is correct. I was just trying to say that if you are familiar with one it may help with your decision of which console to buy. The Strand software has been rewritten significantly from it's Horizon roots as well but has not been completely stripped down and started over like the ETC software.

 

[jmabray]

No problem... I just wanted to clarify for everyone out there.

Also

Strand only puts encoders on the high end consoles
ETC only gives you submaster options -no 2 scene preset version

Please correct me if I am wrong here, but Strand doesn't give you a 2 scene preset console in it's pallette line either. They do in the 100 and 200 level consoles but not in the higher end....

(edit: well I just found the preset pallette... Still not really that much bigger than a smart fade ML (only has 100 control channels) but interesting nonetheless)

ETC does offer 2 scene presets, just not in the EOS/ION line... That's what the entire smart line is about, as of now. I don't know anything about any plans or anything, but I would assume that it wouldn't be that hard of a strech, if ETC were inclined, and the public demand for it was there, to make the fader wings into scenes a and b of a 2 scene preset desk.... Again, just a software update.

 

[Charc]

No problem... I just wanted to clarify for everyone out there.
Also
Please correct me if I am wrong here, but Strand doesn't give you a 2 scene preset console in it's pallette line either. They do in the 100 and 200 level consoles but not in the higher end....
(edit: well I just found the preset pallette... Still not really that much bigger than a smart fade ML (only has 100 control channels) but interesting nonetheless)
ETC does offer 2 scene presets, just not in the EOS/ION line... That's what the entire smart line is about, as of now. I don't know anything about any plans or anything, but I would assume that it wouldn't be that hard of a strech, if ETC were inclined, and the public demand for it was there, to make the fader wings into scenes a and b of a 2 scene preset desk.... Again, just a software update.

Yea, I was looking at the the Ion / Fader panel layout, and there looks to be a variety of ways this could be accomplished. I'm not sure what the deal is with submasters, but depending on the current customizability it could be easily accomplished now.

 

[SteveB]

I don't know anything about any plans or anything, but I would assume that it wouldn't be that hard of a strech, if ETC were inclined, and the public demand for it was there, to make the fader wings into scenes a and b of a 2 scene preset desk.... Again, just a software update.

This is something I've been asking the kind folks at ETC to add to Ion, and is something currently doable on an Insight with Emphasis.

It requires that a submaster be able to be a Supermaster to other submasters, a very useful feature of Emphasis. Having this capability allows a 2x20 fader wing to become a 2 scene with one of the subs mastering the rest of the row, or for a sub on any wing to master assignable subs.

Lets say you have an Ion with 2 side-by-side 2x20's wings and a 2x10 fader wing(s). You configure the first 2x20 as subs 1-40, the 2nd 2x20 as 41-80 and the 2x10 as 81-100, with a 2x20 (left wing) then a 2x20 (middle wing) then a 2x10 (right wing) laid out left to right.

Subs 1-20 have Channels 1-20 recorded at full. Subs 21-40 (lower row on the left wing) also have Channels 1-20 recorded. Subs 41-60 (top row on the middle wing) have Channels 21-40. Subs 61-80 (lower row on middle wing) repeat Channels 21-40. Sub 81 becomes a Supermaster for Subs 1-20 and 41-80 (upper row). Sub 82 becomes a Supermaster for Subs 21-40 and 61-80 (lower row). You now have a 40 channel 2 scene, with 18 subs left over on the 2x10. You can even text label the subs as "Ch 1", etc... Set it all up once and save it.

Now an Ion is a close to a replacement for an Express 48 or an Insight with Emphasis. With tons more functionality given all the additional ML features. I'd bet the rental shops would kill for this feature, as rental to all those folks that need an Express 2 scene replacement. The ability to stock a basic Ion with assorted fader wings configurable in this manner, becomes very cost effective.

Note also that being able to Supermaster makes management of all those subs (up to 200 on an Eos or Ion) a whole lot easier. Another application might be a TV studio with certain subs assigned to a set, another group as another set, etc... with Supermasters, you can drop out an entire set or zone and not lose the levels established with the subs, as a shoot moves from set to set. That's gotta' be useful to somebody.

Note that I'm aware that we are still in the early releases of the Ion software and this may well be planned. And that ETC is currently dealing with how to manage wing assignments.

My question is - is there demand for all this ?. It seems like a simple add-on to the submaster functions, but would people need it or use it ?. Strand seems to think so, witness the Preset Palette.

My request is that if you think this is needed, add a post on the ETC Users Forum and let them know how you feel.

As comment to the Strand Preset Palette only having 100 channels, I admit to being surprised at that limited number. Granted that Strand also deals with attributes as direct addresses (as does Eos/Ion) on a single channel, so the actual number of channels can be lower, it still seems odd given that the console supports 6 universes. I'd be curious to know if the Preset Palette is priced in the ETC Smartfade range.

Steve B.

 

[jmabray]

I did see a beta of the 1.4 software at USITT. Some of the things that they are adding to the ION and the fader wings in particular are going to be pretty powerful...

It is really going to be an interesting year....

 

[gafftaper]

Now an Ion is a close to a replacement for an Express 48 or an Insight with Emphasis. With tons more functionality given all the additional ML features. I'd bet the rental shops would kill for this feature, as rental to all those folks that need an Express 2 scene replacement. The ability to stock a basic Ion with assorted fader wings configurable in this manner, becomes very cost effective.

That is SO true. instead of several different consoles just stock ION and a bunch of wings. What ever the renter wants you just give them the correct number of wings. BRILLIANT!

As comment to the Strand Preset Palette only having 100 channels, I admit to being surprised at that limited number. Granted that Strand also deals with attributes as direct addresses (as does Eos/Ion) on a single channel, so the actual number of channels can be lower, it still seems odd given that the console supports 6 universes.
Steve B.

I believe I've been told that all the Palettes have the same computer inside. and that the Light Palettes have a slightly faster one with a little more memory. If you look at the back page of the data sheet it shows that you can buy either 128 or 512 channel upgrade for a preset palette. Poor marketing choice saying 100 channels up front and burying the fact it can upgrade in the back. I know we have a secret Strand Operative or two who hang out here perhaps one can share pricing info.

This discussion also brings up the question of will Strand ever make a wing panel for palette with encoders on it. Seems like it would be quiet simple for them to do judging from all the USB ports available on the console.

 

[Charc]

That is SO true. instead of several different consoles just stock ION and a bunch of wings. What ever the renter wants you just give them the correct number of wings. BRILLIANT!
I believe I've been told that all the Palettes have the same computer inside. and that the Light Palettes have a slightly faster one with a little more memory. If you look at the back page of the data sheet it shows that you can buy either 128 or 512 channel upgrade for a preset palette. Poor marketing choice saying 100 channels up front and burying the fact it can upgrade in the back. I know we have a secret Strand Operative or two who hang out here perhaps one can share pricing info.
This discussion also brings up the question of will Strand ever make a wing panel for palette with encoders on it. Seems like it would be quiet simple for them to do judging from all the USB ports available on the console.

Er, this isn't necessarily ETC territory (Though we have many ETC employees on here.)... why is Strand so shy...?

 

[gafftaper]

Er, this isn't necessarily ETC territory (Though we have many ETC employees on here.)... why is Strand so shy...?

I do know for a fact that Strand reads CB. But I don't know why they feel the need to be shy. By the way if you are also a Palette/Light Palette owner Strand has a new technical forum. They are still sort of getting it going and don't seem to be publicizing it on their website yet so I'm not going to post the link here. Send me a P.M. for the link.

One of the great things about CB is the diversity and depth of knowledge available. Knowing that there are several people from ETC who read and answer questions here is a wonderful thing for their customers. Even having someone like Jmabray around who identifies himself as connected with ETC but not an employee at the factory is a great source of info and support. It also is a great way for them to keep a finger on the pulse of what average users are saying about their products and questions that novice users have about their products. Sure we are a smaller community than some of the other places out there so we may be a little off the radar for some manufacturers. However, if I was Strand, Martin, VL, Shure, Sennheiser, whoever... I would have an employee or two who have a job of surfing the web and answering questions about products. It's just a smart way to do business today.

 

[achstechdirector]

Strand has that forum

Send me the link please.

THANKS

 

[derekleffew]

In the spirit of fairness and free market enterprise:

http://www.etcconnect.com/Community/forums/default.aspx
http://www.strand-dev.com/forums/
http://www.ma-share.net/
http://forums.highend.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14
http://www.martin.com/forum/

 

[Grog12]

In the spirit of fairness and free market enterprise:
http://www.etcconnect.com/Community/forums/default.aspx
http://www.strand-dev.com/forums/
http://www.ma-share.net/
http://forums.highend.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14
http://www.martin.com/forum/

http://www.compulite.com/phpBB2/