The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

New HPL 575w

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Ross, Aug 2, 2008.

  1. Ross

    Ross Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    San Diego
    A friend from another theatre in town told me to be aware that new HPLs were easier to break when relamping S4 caps because of a new manufacturing method or some such thing...anyone else hear/experience this? She said they come with a warning label to point the lamps away from your face, but I see that as being common sense regardless...
     
  2. Pie4Weebl

    Pie4Weebl Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    339
    Location:
    New York City
    Well first off you shouldn't be holding the glass or plugging the base in when it is not in the fixture, so even if they were more fragile you would never really encounter that while changing the lamp...
     
  3. len

    len Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    How do you re-lamp an ETC that uses an HPL except to take the end cap off?
     
  4. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    320
    Location:
    PA & NJ
    What Pie is saying is that the tail cap should always be in the fixture when you plug it in to test the lamp in order to prevent the lamp from blowing up in your face. Much better to lose a reflector than your eye.
     
  5. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    960
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Look in an ETC User's Manual. There's a diagram which shows that the correct way to install a lamp is to point the quartz end away from you, with your thumbs on the rear of the cap, all other fingers on the inside of it on the heatsink of the HPL, and then you squeeze the two together until they are snug.
     
  6. len

    len Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    204
    Location:
    Chicagoland

    Reading. It's FUNdamental.

    I guess it would help if I read all the words. I blame it on the terrorists. Or the Pilsner Urquell. I got a flat tire. I had mud in my eye.
     
  7. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,400
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Ross, I'm guessing your friend is reacting to page 4 of this document, (Rev A, released 08/2007; Rev B, released 06/2008). Previous S4 User Manuals did not include such instructions. As other have said, with proper handling and usage, one never touches the envelope, so there is no evidence supporting your friend's claim. Nor have I seen such a warning label on any lamp box. Could you ask your "friend" to produce one?
     
  8. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    960
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    I would guess that it refers more to the fact you're less likely to touch the quartz when you have it pointed away from you, as it doesn't mention anything about exploding lamps, but that's something I've never really thought of before.

    Ship? Derek? Either of you know the odds that a lamp might explode simultaneous to being turned on? I know that it's a real possibility for a lamp to explode after it's been on for awhile, maybe there's an oil fingerprint or two on the quartz, but as a general practice, should you specifically avoid turning a lamp on while it's not in the reflector housing, or in the case of fresnels, while the lens assembly is closed?

    It's generally accepted that you should never look at a lamp directly if it's not in the fixture, but say you want to test that it works before you put it back together, is that a practice that is just as dangerous, even if your face is turned away from the lamp as to avoid burning up your retinas?
     
  9. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I was taught that if nothing else, you should replace the housing before applying power. You don't have to screw it into place, just set it back in the instrument.
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,105
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    Illinois
    Here I thought this was another case of stump the wizard as it were. Sure have a few contacts, hear a few things, get a few pre-market samples and miss out on something I knew was coming in being announced. Somehow even signing up for the press releases don’t always get me info.

    The new HPL the grape vine says is under development - a bit late in coming out if not out yet.

    Otherwise I thought it about the new heat sink I heard one company has in being a sort of slippery fiber so as not to be effected by moisture in a potential short situation but very strong and easy to get into the socket bracket without breaking. Big debate in the HPL making industry about aluminum verses fiber sinks.

    That or I thought in initially reading about any number of brands - brand not mentioned and probably for the best in not doing so - all brands have the same base globe/lamp very different packaging and sinks so brand neutral is often very safe. I had thought it was about the boxes from one of the four main brands under licence that if you drop the box, “Hi, I’m fumble fingers, I do the lamps”, that lamp has about a 3/4% chance of breaking. This as opposed to another box that falls apart if handled, develops mold if it gets wet and is only 50/50 in being dropped. Or another box that if a tab on one side or the other gets damaged or depressed and you pick it up with that side down, there slides out your lamp package and onto the floor breaks often the lamp. Packaging if together protects the lamp sufficiently but only four tabs holding in the lamp being the problem.

    Heard about lamps just blowing? Tested and put into use all four main brands and never heard of such a thing - for me its more about lamp packaging more than anything else in getting the lamp to the fixture for a start. After that and once in the fixture, for me at least no difference though I do lament the days of aluminum sinks which is less a problem now that ETC I think refined their quality control.

    This all given... yep no matter the brand or lamp type, turning it on without a protective housing is normally and or always a rather Darwin type way of dealing with lamps that even if you’ did everything right in installing could end your career in an instant short of following the proper precautions. IN general, no a lamp won’t explode - still it’s the 1:1000 lamps perhaps that do which will seriously injure you.
     
  11. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    706
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Production Advantage makes a nifty little tool to seat HPL's

    $10 - ProAdv.com

    SB
     
  12. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Rats, I was going to ask for advice on manufacturers. I don't buy enough lamps per year to really test a brand, although the last manufacturer I tried had lamps so cheap that I think the insides of the envelopes were flawed, based on the way they all failed.

    Anyone feel like slipping me a private message recommending a manufacturer? It's an expensive area to experiment in.
     
  13. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,105
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    Illinois
    Hope not to offend but perhaps that's the best way to take such a request possibly - realizing that taking such advice/debate is not as open to public discussion and fairness and for those reasons might be fair enough to discuss openly. This given a fair amount of those replying that have tested all brands and can fairly assess what's the best brand. Raise your hand if you have used the Philips HPL lamp! Given most don't get much a choice on lamps used etc. often such a topic turns into a slam session that's manufacture based but as a problem, problem based similar to all or one's situation.

    PM is the best I think possible way of kick starting his own choice given this. For me, play tested and or bought hundreds of lamps for a number of years of all brands making them at least of the top four brands. More for me packaging and pricing in that otherwise all lamps are for the most part the same in quality for me in the end. Just finished sending a second group of like 100x failed HPL lamps of all brands to a manufacturer of them requesting them so they can do an end of life study on them.

    I'll PM the message from the testing faculty but overall it's a question of how many of any number of brands that were in service at the time failed during that period and less about brand quality of any of them.
     
  14. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    None taken, I'm just not quiet sure on CB policies. I always prefer an open discussion. I've also learned that in this industry, more than most, it's better to listen to those with experience, even if they're not always unbiased. Many of you have considerably more experience than I do, so I'd better listen up. Even with my limited experience I could tell you what companies I will never purchase equipment from again, or which distributors locally I would give my firstborn to for saving my shows.

    So, you know, thank you to those of you sharing your experience here.
     
  15. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,400
    Likes Received:
    2,784
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    The phrase "Praise in public, discipline in private." seems somehow applicable.
     
  16. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,493
    Likes Received:
    2,475
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    Remember that other users of CB are not as low profile as you and I. You've got people like Derek and Whatrigger? who sign a contract that says they won't disclose where they work. You've got Ship who works for a VERY LARGE business... he buys lamps in a volume that is off the charts. Then there's Steve Terry, industry legend and a big shot at ETC. These are just a few examples, there are others. These people always have to be careful about what they say. They could get themselves fired, take down a company, and/or get themselves sued. As you hang out around here and get to know people you'll figure out who has these restraints on them. Always respect their boundaries. P.M. is a good route to go when dealing with delicate questions. If they get to know you a bit via pm, they may share more information with you than they are willing to post publicly.

    Lots of people read these boards. I had a bad experience earlier this year. I made a few negative remarks here. I was told my comments made it to the company president's desk in a few days and they flew an expert in from the other side of the continent to take care of my problem. What you say here is heard. What people like Ship and Steve Terry say here echoes far and wide throughout the industry.
     
  17. Darthrob13

    Darthrob13 Active Member

    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    California
    I'm interested that being taken care of was a negative experience.....;)
     
  18. Sayen

    Sayen Active Member

    Messages:
    638
    Likes Received:
    39
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    I was going to say, how I get the ear of company presidents? ;) I wish I could tell stories of what's going on at my site (especially on days like today), but I understand the need to watch what I say. As a public employee I can be disciplined or fired for what I post, which is why I don't sign with my real name or where I work, as much as I would love to make public some of the things going on and the ways in which a particular lighting company is giving me the run around. On this forum and others I have to remember to keep anonymous, which takes the fun out of sharing this resource with some of my peers or students.
     
  19. MNicolai

    MNicolai Well-Known Member Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    3,012
    Likes Received:
    960
    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    /offtopic

    I take more of the ProSoundWeb approach to CB. We're real people, working for real companies, and it's only professional that you post with a name, not some strange handle, as we are a part of an industry based on relationships, contacts, and most of all, other people. I believe the last time I was at PSW the official rule there is that you must have an actual name as your username if you want to make any posts.
     
  20. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

    Messages:
    6,105
    Likes Received:
    387
    Location:
    Illinois
    Note a recent article in PLSN by Nook the LD. Takes it to a place about say places one will never deal with again for business purposes but doesn't take it to names. Been past discussions on Stagecraft and here about brand/supplier specifics, often they don't help much once it gets into those with differing views and experiences. Purchase equipment from again... that's a big statement if still limited in experience. I have a few years of experience if of help and wouldn't say that of any brand of anything in that they constantly improve and they are lot to lot no matter the brand often a wrench thrown into what you might decide.

    Have a old TD mentour that won't buy any Thorn/GE based on his experiences initially like 20 years ago with the HX-600 lamp from them. For him, anything from them is a no sell. This even if the new HPL lamp I hear will come from them first, much less GE owning Koto now that's total quality.

    For me it often gets down to packaging for drop test once a lamp survives a tour. Lots of lamps back from one tour of a specific brand where the lamp container was left open and the boxes turned to mush - much less moldy mush. About to give to one of my customers my second sample BTH lamp today but "Hi, My name is fumble fingers, I do the lamps", I dropped it while picking up the boxes for the BTL lamps and it the customer was picking up today.

    Yep... Pop. While normally the foam in this type of bi-pin lamp box from that brand would help it to survive impact, a letter will go out in the morning about this incident in that sample lamp to a customer not surviving a drop given no doubt the added weight of the lamp base. Gee, a bit more support or Pop' won't help end users.

    On the other hand, one of the lamp distributers I dealt with over the years and in a way the one sales person from them that got me where I am as a lamp nerd in having to know my lamps just got bought out last week by another company. Not much about their demise especially from me in that they never really saved us much money unless we put a lot of time and effort into it, on the other hand much curiosity was where the legendary sales person from them wound up... Very legendary person that would belittle you the customer in her superiority complex, much less as a professional working as one of our suppliers attempted to get me fired by going over my head in complaining about me for pricing about, yet that's also what her first question was in attempting to beat others pricing as opposed to just giving me her fair honest best price. Years and years before and during my time as lamp buyer of hosing us when she could. Fair enough, broke with her and the company she represented after a few years of this and ear loads of why she was the best as a really bad sales person. Her nemisis for in pricing, attempted to get me fired as one of two in the industry that has ever attempted to do this in threat or action - she did do the action.

    This given one should not have to argue with a sales person you are paying money to. Ding Dong the Witch is dead.... was the comment when I found out that company got bought out.

    Anyway, that's industry and even for them, while many will know the lady from NY I speak of with personal experience, it does not tarnish her or where she worked with those just learning and in some things having to learn old school or by PM as needed.

    Big question became where she wound up. Took some time but I found out thru a third hand source and one can bet I won't be calling that NY branch.

    That's personal on the other hand and years of background in getting that way.

    On the other hand, where I work and when I started with them they would not and no way say deal with Altman as a brand. To many years bad experience, they were done with them. Once I became part of the buying staff next generation and me being a fan of them I re-did the relationship with that company and for a few years given a new sales rep everything was great. That sales person moved up or on and moved us to another sales rep that would also go to bat for the customer etc. and years later they as a brand for us are very dependable as an example. Often or at times, it is not a company, just the sales person representing them which are of limited use or even bad for that company in dealing with the clients.

    Good reason not to burn a bridge or state specific problems often in that its a small world, those you had at one place will at career change times wind up elsewhere, and once gone it does become a new relationship with where you used to be good or bad with.

    Same also with manufacturers in both reps and product. Don't cross out what over time evens out.

    This even if there is a lamp lady out there working for a new company I"m told that I personally will be avoiding dealing with. That's on the personal level and where needed will just call a different branch of that company she works for.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice