New Theatre at My High School

[DJZS]

And what's the average cost for a system like this? Which is, (FYI) nowhere close to anything in any high school near here.

Without the moving lights or JR Clancy battens- about $155,000
With the moning lights but without the JR Clancy battens- about $227,000.
I dont recall Clancys current pricing so thats why I didnt include it. However, that pricing does include Clamps, Colorframes, Stagepin Connectors, and Unison stagepin strips for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and catwalk electric with tails, and labor.

 

[Les]

That era has passed

I would say it's slowly creeping away. I have yet to see any satisfactory LED fresnels and I don't think I'd personally be ready to rely too heavily on an LED ellipsoidal that is still very much in its infancy (and that goes for all of 'em out there). With LED cyc lights, pars, and bricks, dimming could easily be cut down to a half rack, as I'm not too crazy about distributed dimming. Shoot me now if I have to contend with 30 Backpak dimmers on the catwalk and another 15 overhead. Of course, I don't speak for everyone and I understand that this is truly a transitional phase where you don't truly win out 100% either way ...Not yet, at least.

 

[derekleffew]

...
2- ETC Sensor+ 48 Dimmer Racks with control cards
96- ETC Sensor+ 2.4K Dimmer Modules
6- ETC Sensor+ 2.4k Relay Modules ...

Sensor+ was discontinued/replaced by Sensor3, almost two years ago. http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/24212-etc-sensor3-cem3.html .
.

 

[mozsey]

Not if the budget isn't there to support it.

You'd be surprised. Out here near seattle there's a school that got 4 moving lights and like...20 seachangers in their new package. They also got an ion with faders for their mainstage, and an element in their blackbox.

 

[techieman33]

Might as well suggest they get vlx's and vl3500's, wouldn't be much more expensive than some of the opinions given so far.

 

[DJZS]

Sensor+ was discontinued/replaced by Sensor3, almost two years ago. http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/24212-etc-sensor3-cem3.html .
.

Oops, im just still used to writing the + haha

 

[TheaterEd]

As someone who just went from a school with an Ion to a school with an Element, I would say go with the Ion. In my opinion it is worth the investment, especially if you are looking to add moving lights.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Not if the budget isn't there to support it.

In a new build, we find the cost is about equal, when you include the total cost for space, electrical and mechanical infrastructure, and not just the bill of materials from the lighting dealer.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

As someone who just went from a school with an Ion to a school with an Element, I would say go with the Ion. In my opinion it is worth the investment, especially if you are looking to add moving lights.

I agree. While EOS might be overkill, I don't think in the scheme of things the cost difference of Element to Ion makes a difference in a million plus worth of theatre equipment and it seems to me there is significantly more functionality that will be used, especially with LEDs and wiggle lights. I have not run a lighting board for a show in a long time but sure seems to me the wheels alone for wiggle lighst would be worth it. What is the difference it today - $3000 to $4000 or so?

 

[tdrga]

Last time I priced an Ion with fader wing (a necessary accessory , IMO) it was around 11k. Element was around 5k.

This was a couple of years ago - pricing may have changed since then.

The extra cost is worth it if using moving lights, IMO.

-Todd

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I'll ask at USITT. Will depend a lot on how fit out they are and if bought alone or as part of a whole system.

 

[kicknargel]

Kargel's rant: when you hire a consultant, make sure this is NOT the person selling you the equipment. Otherwise you get a spec based on what they have left over in their warehouse. Hire a pro and pay a fee.

 

[gbirdsall]

The only thing i would change about les's list is about 32 19* S4s

I work in a CC that just built their pat, and its speced simmilar to this, but with a congo (Im sure it was a warehouse item).

the reason I say so many 19*s is that about 3 times a semester we have a dance show in with 4x4 boom stands that all take a 19* and we have a total of 24 so we are borrowing from the black box on campus to run it right.

As for the clancy rigging, its whats installed in the building, I personally love it over a traditional flyhouse. Some words of caution though, in the ~2 years we have been open we have had 3 motor controll board failures with less then 100 hours on them. Oddly its the pipe we use as a [-]meet rack[/-] meat rack and the pipe we use as a make shift 1A electric, never over loaded they have just failed. Also the clancy console we have gives a constant temp light, Clancys solution to this was either pay to have a new back cover shipped or drill about 12 1/4 inch holes in the back for venting.

Also im aware this is the lighting forum but on the audio spec, we have an ls9 and personally i like it but most have a love hate relaionship with it. if you spec any yamaha gear the expansion cards and digital stage snake for the 33-64 channels is worth the price.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I would think instrument selection might depend on the size of the space and the throws from the foh positions but hey, maybe that's old fashioned.

Totally on another topic, no one care for the ETC Prodigy for over stage electrics? I wasn't really sure what was meant by "the clancy rigging" but seems to be Powerlift.

 

[derekleffew]

I would think instrument selection might depend on the size of the space and the throws from the foh positions but hey, maybe that's old fashioned. ...

Certainly not passe in my book. I don't understand how anyone can spec ERS lenses without first knowing typical trim height and throw distance. Further, I'm surprised by gbirdsall's preference to use 19° for dance booms. The consensus in http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/20624-questions-dance-designers.html appears to be that 26° or 36° is much more common. To each his own.

...Totally on another topic, no one care for the ETC Prodigy for over stage electrics? I wasn't really sure what was meant by "the clancy rigging" but seems to be Powerlift.

Here I thought "Clancy rigging" referred to a traditional counterweight fly system from JR Clancy. Didn't even think of Powerlift, Prodigy, Vortek, or any other automated rigging. Maybe I'm old-fashioned.

 

[Les]

The only thing i would change about les's list is about 32 19* S4s

Not my list - DJZS's list.

I really don't think now is the time to be making any lists at all. Recommendations and "things to consider" are good, but no consultant worth his salt is going to put down a list saying 'here's what to get' or even 'here's what I'd get' without seeing the space or even having rough dimensions! Remember, the OP said he was in a position to make suggestions. We're not spec'ing a space nor should we be.

Heh, maybe I'm old fashioned as well.

 

[Esoteric]

Didn't read the whole thread.

Hire a professional consultant.

The best anyone can do without seeing the space is really....

A Console
Some Dimmers
Some Lights

And do everything on a CAT5e or CAT6 backbone.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

As for the lighting Derek - and booms - I agree. I even used 4 1/2 X 6 (50ish?) for a mid high near side, almost always 6 x 9 (36ish) as the shinkicker. I think every plot Tom Skelton did was 6 x 9 shinkickers.

As for the rigging, Derek, I based my comment on the line "As for the clancy rigging, its whats installed in the building, I personally love it over a traditional flyhouse." Which I thought meant Powerlift, but maybe it was rope and sandbag versus more modern manual counterweight.

 

[gbirdsall]

Yes I was referring to the powerlift system fully automated


And how big are your guys stages where you can use a 36? The ld I learned from insisted on 19s on our stage. It's roughly 40x20 at the proscenium opening and the booms are approximately 42 feet apart

 

[Les]

And how big are your guys stages where you can use a 36? The ld I learned from insisted on 19s on our stage. It's roughly 40x20 at the proscenium opening and the booms are approximately 42 feet apart

A 36* is a wider degree than a 19*, so theoretically the former would be most useful on a smaller stage/shorter throw. Of course, that's not a hard and fast rule. Sometimes you want a broad gobo wash, you want to light something on stage from directly above, or from a shorter distance in general. There are many, many reasons to have a wide selection of lens tubes.

One instance where someone might be insistent on a particular beam spread is when they are lighting areas from the same hanging position -- you want the beam pattern to match the acting area as closely as possible before shuttering. Even then, some positions are upstage, some are downstage, etc. Then there's the fact that area lighting is only 1 of many uses for an ellipsoidal.

I can't imagine being limited to only 19-degree optics. It's like having one size of screwdriver. I even find uses for 50's on large stages - like the time I had to project Emerald City on to the cyc from Electric 1 for Wizard of Oz.