No more GrandMasters on ETC consoles

tdrga

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Feb 13, 2011
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Central TX
Can anyone tell me why ETC has decided to do away with physical GrandMaster faders?
I don't have an official reason from ETC, but I imagine it is to standardize the facepanel layout and eliminate one physical fader that doesn't get used often by most people.
You can make any fader (real or virtual) into a Grandmaster by using the Fader Configuration tab (tab 36). If you make a physical fader into a GM, note that you have to push BOTH buttons under the fader to activate the Blackout key function.
-Todd
 

Michael K

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Oct 23, 2015
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San Jose, CA
This is one of those never ending debates. There are some people who get good use out of the GM and master fader pair, but it's also a source of innumerable support calls, to ETC and I'm sure venue managers/TDs
 

Jay Ashworth

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St Pete FL USA
As is, I am sure, not uncommon, I don't need it often, but when I need it, I need it BADLY, and having to a) figure out which fader to grab and b) remember to hit both buttons is a non-starter.

I don't buy a lot of boards, and what's in their used market will serve me fine, so I don't expect to change their mind, but...
 

SteveB

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Brooklyn, NY
As is, I am sure, not uncommon, I don't need it often, but when I need it, I need it BADLY, and having to a) figure out which fader to grab and b) remember to hit both buttons is a non-starter.

I don't buy a lot of boards, and what's in their used market will serve me fine, so I don't expect to change their mind, but...
You’re only hitting both buttons if you need a blackout button push. My legacy Ions all have their BO buttons disabled as it’s about as fast to just slam the fader to zero. And I’d have to check but usually you can configure in Fader Configuration what the buttons do so I think you can set it for one of the buttons.
 
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Jay Ashworth

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Feb 7, 2014
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St Pete FL USA
That helps a *little*, but the ballistics of the buttons on the wing are noticeably different from the Master Blackout button too, which can affect how easily I can use it for what I do...

And what do people *with no wings* do, pray tell?
 

DuckJordan

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Doesnt matter
That helps a *little*, but the ballistics of the buttons on the wing are noticeably different from the Master Blackout button too, which can affect how easily I can use it for what I do...

And what do people *with no wings* do, pray tell?
I'm not sure there is a console other than the original ion that doesn't come with at least a few faders. You can also assign macro buttons to do a black out.
 

danTt

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Aug 24, 2011
Location
NY
That helps a *little*, but the ballistics of the buttons on the wing are noticeably different from the Master Blackout button too, which can affect how easily I can use it for what I do...

And what do people *with no wings* do, pray tell?
Chances are if you are the type of person who utilizes a grandmaster, you're also using lots of other faders and as such will have a console with them. Alternatively, you can use all of the nice touch friendly soft faders on screen.

How often do you use the blackout button?
 
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SteveB

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That helps a *little*, but the ballistics of the buttons on the wing are noticeably different from the Master Blackout button too, which can affect how easily I can use it for what I do...

And what do people *with no wings* do, pray tell?
One of the Ion XE models has no faders, I’d want a fader wing if I purchased that model. The other desks in the Eos line have faders.

I have mixed feelings about no GM. I can seen needing it but cannot recall the last time I used it.
 

MNicolai

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I have mixed feelings about no GM. I can seen needing it but cannot recall the last time I used it.
Been a few years since I threw faders busking an incandescent rig. Probably the last time I used a GM or blackout key for anything. My workflow's changed enough with LED's that I don't find myself needing a GM or blackout button.
 
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JohnD

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As long as we are going down this rabbit hole, does anyone else miss split crossfaders?
 

derekleffew

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As long as we are going down this rabbit hole, does anyone else miss split crossfaders?
As a matter of fact, No! Today's consoles have evolved to the point where every light, infact, every parameter of every light, can have its own unique time. No longer are we limited just to one time for raising intensities and one for lowering.

Likewise re: Grand Master. Does one really desire a Fader that controls the level of every DMX value--I think not. Maybe one needs/wants an Intensity Master, but the operator can choose any fader on the desk to be that.

Go to the light Carol Anne.
 

JChenault

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seattle, wa USA
As a matter of fact, No! Today's consoles have evolved to the point where every light, infact, every parameter of every light, can have its own unique time. No longer are we limited just to one time for raising intensities and one for lowering.

Likewise re: Grand Master. Does one really desire a Fader that controls the level of every DMX value--I think not. Maybe one needs/wants an Intensity Master, but the operator can choose any fader on the desk to be that.

Go to the light Carol Anne.
That said ( and I do agree with Derek ) - I wish there was an easier / obvious way on modern consoles for the operator to control the overall time of a cue. I don't believe this is easy to grok on an EOS family. Not sure about other boards.
 
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tdrga

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Feb 13, 2011
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Central TX
That said ( and I do agree with Derek ) - I wish there was an easier / obvious way on modern consoles for the operator to control the overall time of a cue. I don't believe this is easy to grok on an EOS family. Not sure about other boards.
The EOS family has at least two ways on many consoles: the Rate wheel and the master split fader pair. What time control on a cue are you looking for?
-Todd
 
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Jay Ashworth

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Feb 7, 2014
Location
St Pete FL USA
Chances are if you are the type of person who utilizes a grandmaster, you're also using lots of other faders and as such will have a console with them. Alternatively, you can use all of the nice touch friendly soft faders on screen.

How often do you use the blackout button?
Randomly, when I need it.

Touch screens are at the wrong angle too. :)