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Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Dustincoc, Oct 8, 2007.
I hear a show in New York is going to use one of these. LOL
Fresnel, they still do what they do. I'm sure alot of shows in New York still use those, its a big city, and a big state.
Now, are you referring to a specific broadway production or something? The designer of Curtains used a few old lights for a period look on some set pieces.
foot diameter 5k Fresnel to put it more into scale.
Actually, There are none of these in the city, they threw them out years ago. One of the Ballets lighting designers was looking for one and one of the local theatres here that doesn't throw anything out had one that's 2' in diameter and another thats about 18" across. They don't even know where they originally came from. They only time they've used them in about 20 years was as a sun behind a drop.
All I know is that it's a ballet. I saw Curtains last spring and didn't notice any old lights but I was too busy watching all the shakespeares and movers too notice much else. (The newest lights we have are a bunch of beat up old 360Q's)
theatre light and not many dimmers can handle a 5k light.
fixture pictured is an 8" Fresnel. It's standard lamp was a 1000W incandescent (non T/H), but it also took a 1500W and 2000W. Notice the TWO asbestos covered leads. Notice the THREE pin connector. What's missing?
The oval beam version of this fixture was extremely useful and I can't fathom why some other mfg. (Are you listening ETC?) didn't pick up on it. But I also thought the British "bi-focal shutters" were a good idea, too.
page actually shows a light that can be ordered in different sizes ranging from something like a 3" fresnel up to close to a 29" fresnel(chart in bottom righthand corner of page).
In the Bottom Left colomn, is gives the option to order the equipment "ungrounded" which is what is missing in the picture, the ground wire. The plug isn't your standard 10 amp stage-pin connecter, It's the 30 amp version.
This looks like the lights we've dug out and They are from Kliegl Brothers, but they may be something different(I haven't seen the lenses). I do know that at some point in their life, they were at NBC-TV.
Hall uses 8" 2k's for their over head washes. They work fairly well, just power hogs. 4 of them wash an area that takes 6 750w Parnels. The reason why they still use them is they don't have the money to buy a bunch of Parnels and replace these things despite the savings. The Parnels at 750w also don't have the same punch. So yes, they are still around and being used.
PRG has them in their inventory. I got to use 5K's a lot in college, Ithaca owns a bunch. They are not rare. I would imagine every TV studio (ABC, NBC, CBS) in NYC has a few.
The "standard" pin connector in use today is 20A, which is what I believe is pictured, attached the the leads of the (up to) 2000W 8" Fresnel. Stage pin connectors also come in 60A and 100A sizes.
In 31 years in the industry, I've seen a couple of 10A pin connectors on fixtures from the early 1960s, but never a 30A.
I know of a TV station in Baton Rouge, La that still has a bunch of these hanging on the grid. Also, their old Strand dimming system has some 6K dimmers and I want to say a couple of 12K slots but I may be wrong about the 12K. 6K for sure because they occupied multiple slots and threw off your dimmer channels in the rack.
They have mechanical dimmers bigger then that. In the Motion Picture business, we use Autotransformers a lot because of all the RF and filament noise SCR and TRIAC dimmers generate. I have a 3000w and a 5000w that I have used over the years. They weigh a ton but it keeps the sound dept. happy.
fixture I don’t yet have or have not yet worked with. Totally cool - this me in just acquired three more ancient Fresnels to bring me up to five of other than Altman 65 or 65Q ancient no longer made type.
Got designers bringing in fixtures from Europe that have some fixture that’s more efficient in a US version but I still have to convert as EU to US, got others looking for other new fixtures that are unique for me to work on. Hmm, a designer wanting a obsolete fixture... relish your time with it if you are the one converting it to modern standards. What can you learn from this fixture. For me as a Fresnel by the photo, it looks like a much longer in length Fresnel than normal. What’s photometrically a difference in the fixture given this, much less what lamp does it use and what will be the expected differences in that?
Curious the thumb screw at the top of the gel frame side of the fixture, means to me that the front of the fixture opens up so as to change the lamp yet I don’t see a seam. Between the front crank and this thumb screw, it’s evidence that Kliegl didn’t always have the best ideas on engineering. Still I want one - personally.
Is it an ovalite or Fresnel? That’s a big difference in design qualities there. Perhaps since Ovalites are not so normal these days the designer is not specifying Fresnels but the other for his design.
Don’t see the lamp used in the fixture listed and didn’t go to www.Kliegl.com to check it. I expect this fixture is using a 400G/FL lamp? Perhaps it’s a prop light instead and using a LED source instad. Very popular to use the classic look of a lighting fixture and add a LED source to it instead for show use.
After reading the discussion It’s a higher wattage lamp larger lens seemingly used in the fixture than thought. Still the same concept in both similar to a PC fixture as used as a prop light shape and style and it’s application as a prop. Me, I have seen ancient lights in the back of some scrap dealer’s pickup truck at least once and been too late in running down the stairs of the theater to catch it in offering real money as opposed to scrap value to the classic stage lighting fixture seen thrown into the back of a scrap dealer’s truck. - Na, never happened, Instead I couldn’t afford donuts much less any offer when seen such lights. Instead I was just profoundly sad when the pickup truck loaded with theater gear was stopped at a stop light near my office and I was helpless to save the stuff from the scrap pile. Gone from NY... Given the few of this fixture no doubt already there, what was left of it no doubt would be hard to get for the production.
“Dustincoc” - not knowing but not many dimmers can handle a 5K light... nope, older dimmers often could handle a larger light source. 5Kw dimmers were fairly common in lighting systems dependant upon the stage of course.
“Derekelffew” - I have a 30A stage pin plug mounted to my wall of shame.. They did exist and I can photo it. Just added to the wall of shame is a 100A stage pin. Least I believe it is. Got them off some 10Kw Mole Fresnels - the normal these days prop light fixture beyond 5Kw Fresnel prop lights. Kliegl seem older to me and others no doubt thus this one as a period prop in design ways perhaps. Just a thought given studio/movie Fresnels are sort of ageless and timeless as to period or establishing age.
Strand-Century (Strand) did make a CD-80 version of the 12Kw dimmer. IIRC, it was the same size as the 6Kw module. But yes, that "missing slots" thing in the softpatch was a pain.
My college in 1969 had installed 60x 6Kw Ward-Leonard dimmers. While I was there we obtained 4x 12Kw modules and installed them in slots 57-60, normally used for the R-40 cyclights. (We paralleled the wiring from the dimmer room directly above to the patch panel.) Had to drill new holes in the copper buss bars at the back of the rack.
A theatre I used to work in had some 14.4Kw SCR modules by Kliegl, the R77 series, I think. I'd like to see the autotransformer dimmer used for a 20Kw 20" Fresnel, it has to be the size of a Prius.
Why "wall of shame"? Because it's two-pin? Are the pins larger than 1/4"? Or because it's such an odd size? I bet it's fiber, and may be disintegrating. Has two holes for the 10 gauge asbestos leads, right? Probably says "Load Connector" on one side. Is it labeled "110V-30A 220V-15A"? Sure, post a picture.
I sincerely regret leaving behind my "antique" manufacturer's catalogs at university. I had Century, Kliegl, Hub, Major, Ward-Leonard, and Superior catalogs and cut sheets. Those should be in a library somewhere. I didn't fathom then that in only 30 years it would be possible to scan them and out them in a place where all who wished could view them.
The lamp may also be a large Beam Projects with the same body, as I saide in a previous post, i didn't get to look at the front of the unit(lenses) as that's what it was sitting on. it could be http://www.klieglbros.com/catalogs/bulletins/101c1928/bul101p2.jpg
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