Re-opening Procedure after Covid-19

FMEng

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That is correct, but the fever generally indicates when people are the most infectious (whether it's CV19, the "common" flu, measles, chicken pox, whatever). m
As I mentioned before, a University of Washington virologist states that people are most infectious with Covid-19 before they have symptoms. To me, that means before they present a fever. Here is a link to the article.
When coronavirus is most infectious
 

gafftaper

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So, by your logic, since rigging inspections can't prevent 100% of rigging accidents, you don't do them..? Or, in more detail, since the typical rigging inspection can't reveal micro-fractures or anomalies in the metal itself, they're not worth it...? Of course they are! You do the best you can with what you know at the time; when you know better, you do better.

I certainly hope you don't go back to work fearful or even anxious, but, at some point, (I assume) you're going to have to go back to work. And, unless it's as a penguin counter in Antarctica (the only continent that is CV19-free) you're going to want to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible (again, I assume). Thermal imaging is just one part of an overall strategy to do just that. m
We know that at least half the cases of COVID don't have fevers. Multiple studies have shown that the number of undetected asymptomatic cases are significantly higher than we thought. Of the cases that do develop fevers, they can be infectious for as much as a week BEFORE they have the fever. So that means at some point ALL (currently) 1.6 million confirmed (probably a low number) Covid cases were infectious while they did not have a fever. Yes, taking temperatures is a tool for finding a certain percentage of infected people, but there are far more cases walking through the door without fevers.

To go back to the rigging analogy, No rigger has ever said, "I inspected the arbors, I had no way to check the safety of anything else in the system. But the arbors are perfect. Go ahead and run the show." We work in an industry with "go no go" gauges. Things are safe enough for a show or the show doesn't happen. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this means it's going to be a long time until anything happens.

And on a side note... None of this matters. It's going to be a long time until half of the country feels safe enough to go outside. Yeah if we all open tomorrow there will be a few people who show up, but it's going to be a long time until an audience large enough to pay the bills goes outside.
 

TimMc

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{snip of parts not relevant to my reply}

And on a side note... None of this matters. It's going to be a long time until half of the country feels safe enough to go outside. Yeah if we all open tomorrow there will be a few people who show up, but it's going to be a long time until an audience large enough to pay the bills goes outside.
That's part of it. While venues are trying to maximize the number of patrons while maintaining required distancing it's still an open question as to how many of that reduced inventory gets sold. As for paying the bills... touring musical theater is very expensive, even the budget producers have a big nut to crack. Many local & regional orchestras are already on thin financial ice; the good-ish news is only half their season ticket holders show up for the concerts so maybe they can play to 'sold out' houses for the first time in 40 years... but the mature audience that buys season tickets are getting older and many are in other risk groups for coronavirus. It doesn't bode well. Local theater may do better but all parties to the production will need to take a really hard look at budgets because revenue *will* be down and sponsorships uncertain.

The bar-goers in Wisconsin and the frat boys on the beaches aside, there really aren't the huge numbers of folks ready to "go back to 2019" in the next few days or weeks. The long term economic effects are only beginning to come on the horizon.

The folks that were spraying sanitizer on Amazon packages are not going to be in our auditoriums or ballrooms any time soon. It will take more than assurances of venue hygiene, symbolic health screenings and hand sanitizer stations every 20 feet before they come back.
 

josh88

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It's perhaps worth noting the first look at the 30 page guidelines that Newsom/California and the film industry have been working on recommends NOT checking temperature.


Temperature screening is not recommended, as “the benefits are unlikely to be worth the effort.” Ditto repeat testing: “Given the prolonged nature of many productions, workers with differing schedules of varying lengths, repeated universal testing would be highly complex to coordinate and is likely to be very low yield.
 

Doug Lowthian

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Following this discussion it seems like venues need to have a medical staff, testing laboratory, quarantine and medical care rooms onsite.
Strange times indeed.
I jest of course, but is it really coming to venues having to medically screen patrons?
 

MNicolai

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Note, in Universal Studios' reopening they added a CYA disclaimer: “Note that any public location where people are present provides an inherent risk of exposure to COVID-19 and we cannot guarantee that you will not be exposed during your visit."
 
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BillConnerFASTC

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It seems that they are having some success with dogs being trained to sniff for people infected with the virus. previous articles of work in France and UK. There goes the shop - now a dog kennel.
 

TimMc

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Following this discussion it seems like venues need to have a medical staff, testing laboratory, quarantine and medical care rooms onsite.
Strange times indeed.
I jest of course, but is it really coming to venues having to medically screen patrons?
This is where things start to break up a little. Who do you listen to? Which "medical expert" is going to give specific advice to a venue? My guess is "none of them". Venue managers will either DIY this or hire a consulting firm with lots of "hold harmless" clauses in the contract.

The State-owned casinos opened on Saturday morning. On Sunday afternoon I went to the closest one and was stopped by security to have a passive IR temp scan done (please lower your mask so I can get a full reading) and was asked if I had any of the symptoms on the sign next to the officer. The admitted me and 30 minutes later I was ready to leave. They ratcheted down the HVAC, so now the cigarette smoke was nasty, the slots I wanted to play weren't available (either turned off to maintain patron distances or simply busy with players), and all live table games (poker, craps, roulette, blackjack, baccarat) were closed. While casinos tend to attract a mature crowd the patrons that day seemed younger than typical. The casino urged patrons to wear masks (and had them available at no charge), only about 20% of the patrons did so. All casino staff were masked, included the GM. They buffet restaurant was closed and the stage and dance floor of the lounge were blocked off with pipe & drape. Housekeeping staff were quick with sanitizers for chairs and gaming machines as patrons moved on (I was waiting on a particular slot and almost tackled the housekeeper - I didn't see her name badge) who stepped in to clean before I could sit down.

As gambling is about as highly regulated as an 'entertainment' medium can be, I'm looking at what the regulated industries are doing for some operational clarity going forward.
 

MNicolai

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@BillConnerFASTC, This is the only thing I can think about anymore whenever I hear someone talk about dogs sniffing things out:


😂 😂 😂
 

What Rigger?

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Note, in Universal Studios' reopening they added a CYA disclaimer: “Note that any public location where people are present provides an inherent risk of exposure to COVID-19 and we cannot guarantee that you will not be exposed during your visit."
Would expect this at all theme parks, and other places soon.
 

almorton

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I can see this becoming the norm, rather like the "Motor Racing is dangerous" on the back of the ticket we've been used to here in the UK (maybe elsewhere, too) for decades, when buying a ticket to any motor racing event.
 

What Rigger?

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I can see this becoming the norm, rather like the "Motor Racing is dangerous" on the back of the ticket we've been used to here in the UK (maybe elsewhere, too) for decades, when buying a ticket to any motor racing event.
Common in the US as well.
 

mbrown3039

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vegas, baby..!
Many of the Strip casinos open next Thursday and several (including Wynn and Venetian/Palazzo) are using thermal cameras and all of them are encouraging mask use.

One high-dollar, boutique hotel is requiring all luggage to be misted before it's brought into the hotel (it goes from your car to a separate room and then delivered to your room) and you must download the hotel's app to use for everything (checking in, room key, TV remote, paying for dinner, etc.).

Meanwhile, the LVCVA is looking to be the first public venue with GBAC STAR accreditation. More here: https://tinyurl.com/yaogldeu
 

jtweigandt

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Moline Il
Unfortunately math is your enemy here. 2 people 6 feet apart, one hot, one not.. walking past each other in the grocery or outdoors.with a relatively large volume of air circulating is much different than 2 people sitting even 12 or 20 feet from each other
for 2 hours in the same location, with one hot, one not.. remember that lady in the 3rd row with the obnoxious perfume? She was a warning. 2 hours with that same "donor" is like walking past 120 people at the grocery.. all positive.. if you allow 1 minute for each encounter, which is generous ...reality is more like 15 seconds which takes us out to 2 hours with a positive at 6 feet is more like walking past 480 positives at the Grocery store. .. Which is why the grocery stores have been able to stay open, and people try to go to church and the priest dies, and the parish staff tests positive It's the time element of airborne exposure that is the real bugaboo.. surface contamination is likely a much less important and efficient means of transmission here. Really depressing thoughts, I know.. but that's the reality, and that's why the meatpacking plants were hotbeds of infection, and Wal Mart was not. Time x inverse of static air volume x risk of encountering a positive divided by distance. If all positives had a fever, we'd be almost golden here.. but they don't.. so temp screening can improve your numbers.. but probably not drastically.
 

BillConnerFASTC

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I agree. Read of 200 farm workers in TN, everyone tested positive. A third to two thirds of infected people have no symptoms. Minnesota began reopening and highest one day death count yesterday. More agreement its not surfaces but just what jt says - person to person. I hate to be so pessimistic but sure looks bleak.
 

Footer

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I agree. Read of 200 farm workers in TN, everyone tested positive. A third to two thirds of infected people have no symptoms. Minnesota began reopening and highest one day death count yesterday. More agreement its not surfaces but just what jt says - person to person. I hate to be so pessimistic but sure looks bleak.
With ya. Every major growth lately has been due to mass gatherings of people... mostly in factory processing plants where a lot of people are together.

Cuomo has more or less said that mass gatherings won't be happening anytime soon in NYS.

Its either going to be a LONG time till we go back to work or we need to wait for the frustration level to get high enough were everyone is OK with people dying. Its pretty clear D.C. is pushing for opening right up to the point where hospitals get overwhelmed... I'm not sure the rest of society is OK with that plan.
 

jtweigandt

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Moline Il
Decided to clean up my equations this morning

I am the Doctor. Monsters are real. So is Math.

T=time near a person
A=air turnover per hour
R=%Risk of that person being infected
D=Distance Separating
I=Chance of you getting infected
S=Separator effect (Mask, Plexiglass, other physical barriers)

I = T x 1/A x R x 1/D x 1/S