Renting Lights

N

NewChris

Active Member
So due to our high school's auditorium not being done, our fall play has to be done in our Town Hall... I looked at their tech equipment and they have two LD-2400 dimmer racks and a LP-255 light board. These are both a 0-10V analog system... For lights they only have two rows of strip lights above the stage. They have 15 amp twistlock connectors to attach front lighting with on the balconies which are connected to the dimmers. I know we need to rent lights, but not sure of exactly what.

I was thinking about a least 4 Source 4, but wasn't sure of what degree lens to get. From the company we can get either 14, 19, 26, 36, or 50 degree lens. I also wasn't sure if a fresnel or a par can would be better suited.

I also was wondering what is the name of the wire to control the dimmers? I know it's a 8 pin Cinch-Jones connector, but I couldn't find any wires with them, just the connector.

The show is pretty basic for lighting and really just needs to light the stage.

These are photos from the pipe to attach lights on one side of the balcony. On each side of the balcony there are two vertical pipes about 5 feet apart. Each pipe has two twist lock connectors.

IMAG0081.jpg


This is from about half way back on the ground to get a sense of the space.

IMAG0091.jpg
 
It's a little hard to tell without knowing the space/pipes/budget, so I will do my best, but don't blame me if it doesn't work out.

I would probably go for four 26s, four 36s, and four 50s, hanging two of the 26s from each side of the balcony (on the railing), mounting the 36s as frontlight (if you don't have pipes or the ability to reach the pipes, rent a tree or two), and using the 50s as high sides above the stage (one on either side of pipes on both wing spaces). I would probably try to have a down/backlight system with three fresnels across each of the pipes above the stage. Mount three fresnels on either side of the stage if there are verticals there.

So I would suggest, based on the pictures and your description:

4x Source 4 26-Deg
4x Source 4 36-Deg
4x Source 4 50-Deg
12x 6" Fresnel


I would also suggest talking to your local theater companies (especially youth/community) to try to find cheaper equipment. You never know who has rudimentary lighting systems that you can rent cheap.

I would also suggest talking to the lighting designers of local theater companies to find out if any of them have designed in the space or seeing if they can help out.
 
Instead of trying to make a recommendation based on pictures, let me try and show you how to figure out the right answer.

First of all making a measured drawing is key to figure this out. If you do not have a scale rule, go to an art suply store or an office supply store and ask for a scale rule. This is a triangular shaped ruler that has different scales on it so you can make a drawing that represents your space. Go back to the theatre, measure the stage area, measure the distance from the hanging positions of your lights to the stage ( try to get the heights as well ) and draw all of that up. ( getting paper with a grid on it makes this easier ).

Go home and draw up a ground plan of the space that is to scale.

Next you need to understand how big a space you want to light. This depends on the blocking of the show. Is anyone goiing way upstage to the back of the stage, or are you staying on the apron? Are you using the little round sub stage areas at the sides of the proscenium? etc.

When you are figuring out your lighting, we tend to think in terms of areas. IE we have a system of lights ( two or three lights) that are devoted to lighting each area of the stage. An area is typically six to eight feet in diameter - so the next thing is to draw out the areas you want to have on your ground plan. Based on this you can start figuring out what kinds of fixtures you need. Typically you want to have an odd number of areas on your stage so that if someone stands center stage, they will be in the middle of the beam, not the edges.

Looking at your post, it was not clear to me what hanging positions you have. I think there is a vertical pipe on each side of the stage and that is it. If that is the case, you want to put ( at a minimum) one fixture for each area from each side. So if you have three areas, you will need six fixtures, etc.

Probably for these front of house ( FOH) fixtures you want an ellipsoidal. They throw a beam for a long distance that you can control with your shutters so it will not spill into places you don't want it to go.

Now we can decide what beam spread you need. Figure out how far it is from the hanging position to the head of someone standing in each of your areas. ( either from measuring on your ground plan or with something like a laser range finder). If you area is 6 feet wide, you probably want a beam where the field angle is nine or 10 feet ( you want the beams to overlap somewhat). Rule of thumb, add about 4 feet to your area size to decide how big you want the beam to be when it gets to the area. My guess from looking at the picture is that you probably want to use the same beam spread for all fixtures on the box boom as the distances to each area look roughly equal. If that were not the case you might use a wider beam spread for the fixture lighting the close area, and a narrower beam spread for the fixture lighting the area farther away. Go to the ETC website, and look up the photo-metric data for the fixtures. They will show you the field angle for various throw distances. Look to see which spread works best for your throw distance and the size you are looking for.

Alternatively you can do the trigonometry given the beam spread of the fixture yourself.


If you have a pipe over the stage you can hang something from, you could consider putting a downlight over each area. This probably wants to be a fresnel as they spread very quickly and blend well. How many? As many as you have areas.

If you have a front of house position that lets you have light coming straight in, consider adding some front fill. again more or less one per area - figuring out which fixture by looking at the throw distance and the size of the beam you want.

Hope this helps. have fun.
 
Wow. Thanks. Lots of great information. I'll definitely try to make a scale drawing and use that to figure out the beam angle.

Our budget isn't set, but around or under $500 is probably the max. The company we are renting from has Source 4 for $14 a week.

Sorry I wasn't clear about where the lighting positions are. I have attached a quick paint drawing that shows the space. There are two vertical lighting pipes on either balcony. There is no FOH lighting position.


text3538-4.png
 
Those vertical pipes are probably a pretty good location. The idea is to have 2 lights for each area, one from each side. That will fill around the sides of people and whatever. Look up the McCandless method some day. The photo shows vertical pipes near the wood arches at the stage. These are high side angles good for 'mood' and 'shaping' but not so good for seeing faces.

The ETC Lighting Calculator might help. This SLS Beam Calculator is less fun, but does any angle so applies to other fixtures. If you really just need brightness PAR lamps blend together more easily.

So far nobody has addressed the control. There should be a dimmer console at the space that matches the dimmer rack. Modern systems are interchangeable with DMX512 but this one may not be. It is probably an analog system using 10 volt or maybe 12,15,20 volt DC. Cinch-Jones connectors were very common for those. Can you get a brand or model for the dimmers? The rental shop may have a compatible board or converter box, as they tend to hold on to old stuff for just these occasions. If so they will have the cable too. If you are really lucky the shop has worked in that space before and knows what to do.

If neither the venue or shop can get you set up with an analog board things get more complicated. Double & triple check for a DMX connection. The best thing is to get the shop to send someone out to have a look around.
 
Re the dimmers. Is there an issue with the current setup? IE why do you care what kind of cable is needed to control the fixtures if you are just going to use the house system? If it works, and is sufficient to the show, just use it.


RickR - Thanks for the eye on the torm pipes. I did not notice them. I agree that they might work as a secondary location, but not the primary method of lighting the space.

If you do use the torm pipes - this is where you might want to put a wider angle fixture to hit close to the pipe, and a narrower fixture to go to the other side of the stage.
 
The space has 2 LD-2400 dimmers and a LP-255 light board. Both are 0-10V. When I went to the space, I didn't see the cables for it, but they probably are around it. The system there only has two rows of strip lights over the stage. They have no other lights. The setup is really basic and just using their light board and dimmers is the plan. When I talked to the rental shop, they said they didn't have any 0-10V anything- Dimmers, cables, converters.

I have read briefly about the McCandless method and understand the basics of 2 lights at 45 degree for each area. I find lighting design really interesting, but this is the most experience I have every had. Learn by doing I guess....
 
The Leprecon LP255 is a 12-channel analog console and you have two 6-dimmer analog packs with 2400 watts per dimmer capacity. The capacity may be less depending on the power available to the dimmer packs and you seem to be saying there is a 15 amp twistlock at each FOH position, so 1800 watts less derating. Probably one twistlock receptacle per dimmer. Therefore you would be pushing it to put three 575 watt S4's on each boom pipe so two per pipe would be safe. But don't just assume that each twistlock goes to a separate dimmer; they could be tied together. You will have to take a test light/fixture and check it out.
 
Learn by doing is great. It's what I recommend. As far as the McCandless Method goes, remember that the book he published was titled "An Approach..." not "The Only Approach". :D

I, for a long time, used the Method (or as best I could given the theaters I had), but I recently have been moving away from the Method and liking my designs more. Other designs I see too, I prefer non-McCandless approaches. But, of course, it's all up to you to decide what will and what won't work for the show and the space.

You can probably find 0-10v cables cheaply online at used lighting sites, and maybe even ebay.
 
Sounds like this facility has about the same capacity as the space I get to do lighting in. 12 20A dimmers, patched to circuits with NEMA L5-15 outlets. My control board has 2 scenes. Each circuit has two outlets located so the circuit can provide both sides of a McCandless method front light system.

I'd love a cheap way to control the dimmers from a computer. I've thought about building a converter from LED controllers that take DMX signal and output PWM. I might need raise the voltage of the PWM, then the right arrangement of capacitors and resistors should be able to smooth out pulse into 0-10V to control the dimmers.
 
I'm not arguing that Northlight's products are overpriced, but $175 for a board ($275 for the complete solution sans analog connector) converting DMX to 24 channels of analog is hard to call "cheap" when compared to cheap chinese 3-4 channel DMX LED drivers and ~$100 DMX USB dongles. Quality analog circuits are just costly.
 
If you want to spin your own, you could do it for a lot less, if you don't count your time. Parts cost in single quantities would be around $40-50 plus an enclosure.

/mike
 
So the area that we need to light is about 30' by 20'. I was thinking about using 8 26 degree Source 4 for this. I would have 3 zones each with two lights and another 2 lights in case there are dark spots or places that need to be highlighted more.

One issue I just found is I can't find any cables for the light board.... Power is just a normal 3 prong cable so that is no problem, but the data cables are odd... They are 8 pin Cinch Jones connectors. I cannot find online anywhere to buy this cable, only the individual connectors. I might just buy some connectors and make my own cables but would prefer to just get a pre-assembled one. Anyone know where one might find one?


IMAG0090.jpg
 
I'm sure Lex Products or someone could make a cable. DIY is very possible because it's a very simple set up. Low voltage and low amperage DC is as save as it gets. But check in with a mature (acting) person.
 
Judging by the dust, the light board has not been used in a looooong time. I think events bring in their own dimmers and boards and if they use the existing dimmers they just have them on or off, not using the board.
 
If you really don't want to DIY it, you could probably have a rental company do it. Or, barring that, rent a DMX controller and an analog converter. Maybe check if this is something the venue could help pay for if you have to buy it. Dove Systems or Doug Fleenor have them.

If the venue is interested in making sure their equipment is usable, they need to make sure their system is up to date (or at least has cables).

Another route to go would be to rent a DMX board and enough dimmers to get by. It sounds like you're planning on needing 8 if you aren't two-fering or using the strips above the stage. Figure out how many channels exactly you need and then add four for good measure.

Depending on your position, and the school's position, one or both of you could invest in some portable dimmer packs too. 8 channels would probably mean two boxes. You'll want to be careful with your power here, though.
 
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