Scrollers

[CSTLyghts]

We are looking to upgrade our scroller inventory. for the past 15 years, we have been using the Apollo Spectra Q3, but alas they are very difficult,if not impossible, to repair. We are looking at the Morpheus M-Fader right now, and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them, good or bad.

 

[STEVETERRY]

We are looking to upgrade our scroller inventory. for the past 15 years, we have been using the Apollo Spectra Q3, but alas they are very difficult,if not impossible, to repair. We are looking at the Morpheus M-Fader right now, and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them, good or bad.

Really? In 2013, you're looking at replacement scrollers?

I suggest that color-changing LED fixtures might be a better spend with a longer life.

ST

 

[JChenault]

We are looking to upgrade our scroller inventory. for the past 15 years, we have been using the Apollo Spectra Q3, but alas they are very difficult,if not impossible, to repair. We are looking at the Morpheus M-Fader right now, and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them, good or bad.

Several years ago I picked up some used Morpheus S-faders which is the M-fader in a smaller size. The units were pretty beat up, but after a few visits to the factory, and replacing a lot of the scrolls - they have been working pretty well.

The up side - you get a wide range of colors. Pretty much anything you want. And unlike a cheap LED you get a good spectral distribution in the output.
It is very nice to be able to change from color A to color B smoothly. Not like the 'standard' model scrollers.


There are some issues however:
The first is that going through three layers of media drops a lot of intensity from the fixture. The light output is quite a bit less than you will expect.
The second is that over time the scrolls get scratched up, and the intensity drop gets worse. At the same time it becomes impossible to get a sharp shutter edge.
Third - replacement scrolls are pretty expensive.
Fourth. Depending on your console, dialing in the color you want can be fiddly.
Fifth - The fans are noisy ( I expect this is due to the age of my scrollers. The later models do have ways you can control the fan speed. Some of mine do not)

 

[JChenault]

Really? In 2013, you're looking at replacement scrollers?

I suggest that color-changing LED fixtures might be a better spend with a longer life.

ST

Steve
I have to respectfully disagree.

If I am going to light faces, the only color changing LED unit that I would consider is the ETC S4-LED. My understanding of that fixture is that it is not super bright in pastel colors ( the kind of colors I tend to use in the theatre ). it's about like a 575 W long life lamp.

The S4 LED has a street price of around $2300. If I get a regular S4 , and a scroller - I am around $900 per fixture. It's hard to make up that price difference.

Sure in a new building I might save enough on dimmers, air conditioning, etc to make up the difference. But for a remodel, or replacing some fixtures in an existing space, I just don't see that it makes a lot of sense.

 

[techieman33]

Steve
I have to respectfully disagree.

If I am going to light faces, the only color changing LED unit that I would consider is the ETC S4-LED. My understanding of that fixture is that it is not super bright in pastel colors ( the kind of colors I tend to use in the theatre ). it's about like a 575 W long life lamp.

The S4 LED has a street price of around $2300. If I get a regular S4 , and a scroller - I am around $900 per fixture. It's hard to make up that price difference.

Sure in a new building I might save enough on dimmers, air conditioning, etc to make up the difference. But for a remodel, or replacing some fixtures in an existing space, I just don't see that it makes a lot of sense.

I would object to using a prism reveal for a front wash if it was available. They have a very high CRI and create a very even wash. Having no shutters on the color changing unit is a big downside though.

 

[Kelite]

We are looking to upgrade our scroller inventory. for the past 15 years, we have been using the Apollo Spectra Q3, but alas they are very difficult,if not impossible, to repair. We are looking at the Morpheus M-Fader right now, and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them, good or bad.

I feel your pain CSTLyghts, the glass filled scroller bodies can be difficult at times, which is why we no longer have them built 'outside'. The Apollo Smart Color PRO is made here at our facility in Fort Wayne IN, has exceptional reliability and is incredibly quiet. Each Smart Color PRO ships with adjustable mounting tabs, Apollo GelShield and Apollo gelstrings INCLUDED in the price.

Your current PSU and 4 pin cable will cross over to these new units, so replacement costs can be held to a minimum.



I'd be happy to send a demo unit if desired-

 

[CSTLyghts]

I feel your pain CSTLyghts, the glass filled scroller bodies can be difficult at times, which is why we no longer have them built 'outside'. The Apollo Smart Color PRO is made here at our facility in Fort Wayne IN, has exceptional reliability and is incredibly quiet. Each Smart Color PRO ships with adjustable mounting tabs, Apollo GelShield and Apollo gelstrings INCLUDED in the price.

We are looking for a scroller that will allow us to mix any color, as we have a rather large collection of custom scrolls from the Spectra-Qs. How do your scrollers control Gradient of color, and how do they mix? Is it 2 scrolls that turn independently? To get to certain colors would I have to scroll through an entire string to get the proper blend? Is it a smooth transition between color, or are there "frames" that would be seen?

 

[patrickh]

I can attest that the Apollo Smart Color Pro is a sturdy unit that I enjoy using. My university has around 30 of them that we use on around 8 shows a year. They are very dependable and quite compared to many scrollers I have used

 

[JChenault]

We are looking for a scroller that will allow us to mix any color, as we have a rather large collection of custom scrolls from the Spectra-Qs. How do your scrollers control Gradient of color, and how do they mix? Is it 2 scrolls that turn independently? To get to certain colors would I have to scroll through an entire string to get the proper blend? Is it a smooth transition between color, or are there "frames" that would be seen?

The smart color pro is a 'Standard' scroller. IE a single scroll which has distinct colors. Apollo does have the MXR2 scroll which has two scrolls. ( and the Morpheus has three).

I doubt if you will be totally happy with trying to match existing strings to the Morpheus unit. At the minimum, I strongly suggest you get one for evaluation before you pull the trigger on the purchase.

 

[jglodeklights]

I have not worked with the Morpheus scrollers. However, as John pointed out, the three gel strings will kill a significant amount of your intensity and send a lot of the light all over the place. My thoughts based on my experience with Apollo and Wybron products. Dual strings are bad enough for units like Wybron CXI's and Apollo MXR's. While I love how smoothly Wybron scrollers scroll (somewhat moot since you need to buy them used or last batch as they closed their doors), they are fiddly things. ColoRAMII's blow fuses very easily. CXI's color mixing scrollers require exacting tolerances for their gel strings, and sometimes as they shrink due to use replacement scrolls will go outside this tolerance and result in gel string length errors. Out of 18 (16 on plot) I had in my inventory this summer, I sent back 8 to the rental company for "Rear Gel String Short" error. Apollo Smartcolor and MXR scrollers are extremely reliable, but can fail, too. Of the 19 SmartColor Pros I had (18 on plot) I sent back 3 this summer. All were having issues with the reverse motor failing. In regard to CXI versus MXR for color palette achievable with mixing...I prefer the MXR's. Smoother gradations can occur and the built in primary green is nice. Also, with SmartColorPRo standard scrollers, you can create custom gel strings without having to send out for them.

 

[GoboMan]

What kind of instruments are you using? If they apply, have you considered SeaChangers? They emit no noise and use a flag-style filter system and are very quick with color changes and the colors can be tweaked to fine detail as desired. There's a theatre in my town that has a large inventory of them and I love using them whenever I get an opportunity to light a show there.

Just my two cents.

 

[tyler.martin]

What kind of instruments are you using? If they apply, have you considered SeaChangers? They emit no noise and use a flag-style filter system and are very quick with color changes and the colors can be tweaked to fine detail as desired. There's a theatre in my town that has a large inventory of them and I love using them whenever I get an opportunity to light a show there.

Just my two cents.

Again everything is subjective. I worked with a rig that was entirely SeaChangers, and I would not wish that hell upon anyone. I spent six months swapping parts between fixtures before i would get even one show without a single error, and still had about 100 of them that needed replacement straight from the factory.

I can repair a Chroma-Q scroller quite easily as the parts are made in canada and shipped right to me within a week, Apollo is pretty darn close...

The model that you mention "Apollo SpectraQ3" I would assume is actually a Chroma-Q SpectraQ3 or the "Chroma-Q Original" and is super easy to get parts for, and relativly inexpensive. Also, certain rental houses that start with C. tend to sell scrollers for about a 30% discount off retail cost.

 

[Kelite]

We are looking for a scroller that will allow us to mix any color, as we have a rather large collection of custom scrolls from the Spectra-Qs. How do your scrollers control Gradient of color, and how do they mix? Is it 2 scrolls that turn independently? To get to certain colors would I have to scroll through an entire string to get the proper blend? Is it a smooth transition between color, or are there "frames" that would be seen?

Without beating a dead horse, the two strings of graduated color are smooth enough in their transition that no lines of color are seen projetced. Here is a drawing of the color selections and their placement within each string-



The Apollo MXR has been a reliable and affordable solution for schools and roadhouses that host a variety of lighting designers- each with their own favorite pallette of color in mind.

(Also- primary colors are easily found at each end of each string for quick, saturated color)

 

[hobbsies]

I feel your pain CSTLyghts, the glass filled scroller bodies can be difficult at times, which is why we no longer have them built 'outside'. The Apollo Smart Color PRO is made here at our facility in Fort Wayne IN, has exceptional reliability and is incredibly quiet. Each Smart Color PRO ships with adjustable mounting tabs, Apollo GelShield and Apollo gelstrings INCLUDED in the price.

Your current PSU and 4 pin cable will cross over to these new units, so replacement costs can be held to a minimum.

I'd be happy to send a demo unit if desired-

Many people speak highly of these scrollers, but I am not one of those people. I have not had good experiences with them. My main complaints are these:

These scrollers do not scroll in sync with each other.
On that note, they also are inaccurate, they will sometimes scroll too far past a string, and then spend time readjusting. This is one reason they don't scroll in sync with each other. I have been told by Apollo that this is standard operating procedure for these units, mostly so that they operate quietly, which they do very well. They are almost silent.
They are not compatible with many forerunner PSU's that one can rent in chicago, as they need both a 4pin out and in ports to work effectively.
They are much higher wattage than forerunners and colorams (26W vs 14W). Since you can no longer buy forerunners though, I don't know how they compare to other scrollers on the market.

The plus side to them are that they are almost dead silent when on/scrolling, and that Apollo has top notch friendly customer service. I'm sure there are other positives that I don't have experience with. I know that Apollo has been making custom gel strings for a wide variety of scrollers for a long time.

 

[Kelite]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, though I am curious as to several of the points you've listed.

As we build these and other units here at Apollo, I often see the test rack loaded with 24 new Smart Color PROs running during their testing period. They are driven from an Apollo 600W PSU and daisy chained together in a single circuit as rotators, I-cues, irises and other accessories are known to be used in theatre. The 4 pin return cable maintains line voltage across the entire scroller/rotator/icue/iris circuit. The timing of the 24 units scrolling end to end is pretty tight, and that is indeed a very long circuit. So I'm curious as to the units with which you've had the timing experience-

When short runs of 4-pin circuits are made, the user can occasionally forgo the return line. This would be feasible with any Wybron Forerunner PSU locally available, depending upon its output.

Also, for best accuracy, place console output in 16 bit mode, output values DMX 0 - 255. Console output in percent could result in less resolution, and some position shift of the color frame.

I'm curious if the Smart Color PRO scrollers you've used were set at factory default settings (as they are when tested here at Apollo) or set to better satisfy a former show installation or previous rental. (?)

Factory default setting for the DMX address is “001”.
• Factory default setting for fan speed is “=_3_”, high.
• Factory default setting for the gel string speed is “=_3_”, high.
• Factory default setting for remote reset is “=no_”.
• Factory default address for remote reset is “=000”.


If you'd like me to check on this, please let me know offline and I'll get answers-

 

[hobbsies]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, though I am curious as to several of the points you've listed.

As we build these and other units here at Apollo, I often see the test rack loaded with 24 new Smart Color PROs running during their testing period. They are driven from an Apollo 600W PSU and daisy chained together in a single circuit as rotators, I-cues, irises and other accessories are known to be used in theatre. The 4 pin return cable maintains line voltage across the entire scroller/rotator/icue/iris circuit. The timing of the 24 units scrolling end to end is pretty tight, and that is indeed a very long circuit. So I'm curious as to the units with which you've had the timing experience-

When short runs of 4-pin circuits are made, the user can occasionally forgo the return line. This would be feasible with any Wybron Forerunner PSU locally available, depending upon its output.

Also, for best accuracy, place console output in 16 bit mode, output values DMX 0 - 255. Console output in percent could result in less resolution, and some position shift of the color frame.

I'm curious if the Smart Color PRO scrollers you've used were set at factory default settings (as they are when tested here at Apollo) or set to better satisfy a former show installation or previous rental. (?)

Factory default setting for the DMX address is “001”.
• Factory default setting for fan speed is “=_3_”, high.
• Factory default setting for the gel string speed is “=_3_”, high.
• Factory default setting for remote reset is “=no_”.
• Factory default address for remote reset is “=000”.


If you'd like me to check on this, please let me know offline and I'll get answers-

Cool, I didn't want to start a war or anything, just stating my experience. I wish I was still the ME for the company that owned these scrollers so I could narrow down the issue. I certainly used the forerunner PSU's with them and they worked OK, but did not scroll in sync with each other. I think the longest DMX chain I had was 125' from the PSU (5 units @ 25' hops). We were using an express at the time, I'm curious how the new Element they got would handle them now.

EDIT: "reply with Quote" not working

 

[tommygun]

Again everything is subjective. I worked with a rig that was entirely SeaChangers, and I would not wish that hell upon anyone. I spent six months swapping parts between fixtures before i would get even one show without a single error, and still had about 100 of them that needed replacement straight from the factory.

I can repair a Chroma-Q scroller quite easily as the parts are made in canada and shipped right to me within a week, Apollo is pretty darn close...

The model that you mention "Apollo SpectraQ3" I would assume is actually a Chroma-Q SpectraQ3 or the "Chroma-Q Original" and is super easy to get parts for, and relativly inexpensive. Also, certain rental houses that start with C. tend to sell scrollers for about a 30% discount off retail cost.

The units you mention were plasma fixtures and were poorly maintained and choked with pyrotechnic dust. The Cooling fans, heat sinks and a general lack of maintenance all compromised the heat management of the plasma electronics. The optics were coated to the point that the measured light output was 50- 80% attenuated. In addition the electronic boards and power supplies were etched by the caustic nature of the dust and high ambient moisture. We have since gone to a sealed power supply and are pushing a maintenance program to the customer, which appears to be helping.

 

[tommygun]

We are looking to upgrade our scroller inventory. for the past 15 years, we have been using the Apollo Spectra Q3, but alas they are very difficult,if not impossible, to repair. We are looking at the Morpheus M-Fader right now, and I am wondering if anyone has experience with them, good or bad.

If you would like to evaluate a few Seachangers please contact me and I can arrange it.