Shadow Puppetry!!

[gafftapegreenia]

Since being tasked with the job of lighting a shadow puppetry scene in our Jan 2011 production of Frog and Toad, I've decided its time for CB's definitive thread on shadow puppetry lighting. I have some ideas and instincts on how to do this, but naturally I want to pick the greater brain of CB. Going over the previous entries on the subject (http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/14584-peter-pan-shadow-play.html and http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/5657-box-flood-reborn.html being the most useful) I have determined that I need a single fixture acting as close to as a point source as I can get it. It would seem that lens-less PAR's and ERS's are a bad route to take, as their beam would be very uneven. My initial response said Scoop, but obviously such a large PS lamp is far from a point source. From re-reading the threads, it would seem my best bets are a simple bare lamp on a stand, OR a lens less Fresnel, as the reflector, being spherical, reflects all light back through the focal point. Sadly, the one light I'd really like to test, but have no currect access to, is an old skool Plano-Convex box spot. So, I know we have some shadow puppet people out there, whats the best way to do it? I've got several FEL's, I could make a rather bright bare lamp.

EDIT: I see I've been promoted, hopefully this gets interesting.

 

[sk8rsdad]

I am missing a vital piece of information. What sort of enlargement are you hoping for?

Another way to approach the problem is to use diffuse backlight rather than a shadow projection. With this technique you get no magnification of the image. The advantage is a crisp silhouette and the possibility of variable opacity and colour mixing with your shadow puppets. The idea is to rear-project the shadows on a translucent sheet like a scrim, muslin, tyvek, or similar. Further upstage you need a diffuse light source, like your cyclorama. Interpose a shadow puppet between the translucent sheet but in front of the cyclorama. The closer you are to the translucent sheet, the crisper the image.

Bonus points for anybody (other than Derek) who hunts up the name for this form of theatre in Indonesia.

 

[seanandkate]

Bonus points for anybody (other than Derek) who hunts up the name for this form of theatre in Indonesia.

Wayang kulit. Is there a prize? I've done the more Chinese style with the bare bulb--in my case a 1K fresnel with the lens dropped out and a set of barn doors installed. But then again, I needed to be able to make the puppets larger and smaller. I'm rather intrigued at sk8rsdad's method though. If you wanted to be really tricky with backgrounds and such, might you even consider an LCD projector?

 

[gafftapegreenia]

From what I've been told we are doing the "large and terrible frog" with shadow puppets, so I would assume size alteration is a MUST. While sk8rsdad's method is interesting it doesn't seem appropriate for the show I'm doing. In my case, the effect will take place on part of the stage, a stage that already has a fixed unit set on it. I've been told they will be "pulling a curtain across on a clothes line". So thats my sheet. Personally, I'd love to get that "circle of light" on a bed sheet look, but I'm not sure how possible that is in reality. Trust me, experimenting WILL be happening.

What's not so important in this thread is lighting my particular show, but rather, exploring the methods of achieving shadow puppets.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

The joys on Google-ing
help with lighting? at DVinfo.net

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Update:

Well, so far, I've gotten the sharpest shadow results from a BARE lamp, a 60w A19, but any size really will do.

I tried the lens-less fresnel, (Altman 75Q) but the reflector still produces a "second" shadow - the optics aren't perfect.

I'd still love to see what a Plano Convex spot would do.

 

[seanandkate]

Could you take out the reflector? And I also remember building small instruments (in the days before Par 16s) with bare ELH bulbs . I think they were ELH. Think MR16, but line voltage. That might give you want you want. Good luck in your continuing experiments!

 

[jonliles]

I tried posting this the other day, but my computer is, well, let's just say tempermental.

I just closed a version of "Once Upon a Mattress." During the Minstrel's introduction of the story line, we used puppets - it was cute and worked well. More importantly, we used a shadow puppet scene for various elements of this bit of schtick. It sounds silly, but it worked surprisingly well. 3 or 4 feet behind a bed sheet (el cheapo not very hi thread count) we used click on, battery powered LED puck lights. I did have the non-important part of the stage dimmer than the minstrel in a special (he was far DS & the shadow puppet was far upstage). We were not using real shadow puppets, we were using traditional hand puppets, but the effect was great.

I spoke with the puppet maker about this bit, he stated he has also used Ryobi 18V flashlights as well as small halogens to get the effect he wanted. The LED was a bit of a compromise on on edge definition the closer the puppet was to the point source.

Pro's: Cheap, easy, no dimmer required! Nice cirle of light on a bed sheet look (think about kid reading under a blanket with a flashlight)

Con's: With LED puck light, you lost edge definition as the puppet moved closer to the light source

Just my 2bits

 

[kicknargel]

I think the ELH lamp mentioned above would work well. I've seen a theatre use them in birdies (PAR 16s). It's not safe and way beyond the rating of fixture. Also they get really hot (the lamp is meant to be fan-cooled) and will burn out at the slightest vibration. But they were miraculously bright and crisp. Maybe one could build a safe, fan-cooled housing.

We should also talk about the screen surface. Bed sheets or raw muslin will work to some extent, but the light source will be visible and you may even see the actors/puppets a little through the weave. Translucent plastic sheeting (shower curtain) works well. Rear projection screen material would be perfect (and expensive). Coroplast corrugated plastic sheets do pretty well. Also, I've used muslin sized with Rosco Flexbond with great results.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

At this point I'm planning to pull on of our ancient 6" Fresnels out of the Graveyard, drop the lens and reflector, add a top hat, and see the results.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Well, here's what I did.

I went over to the "other" space on campus where there are several 1KAF Fresnels with corroded bases and cracked lenses. (Funny how easy the lenses on these seem to crack, huh?). Took it back to the shop, pulled the old lamp base, pulled the lens, black wrapped the reflector, wired in a medium screw base for a 200 watt P21, dropped in a top hat and I'm pleased to say it's pretty much exactly what I wanted, from ten to fifteen feet away its the perfect "flashlight under a blanket" look.

 

[shayward]

Bonus points for anybody (other than Derek) who hunts up the name for this form of theatre in Indonesia.

Wayang Kulit.....I remembered that from my Indonesian Music class from my Undergrad work in Music Education. In fact, I staged a small demonstration of this artform inside our classroom using a white bedsheet and a small portable shop floodlight. Had the light set back about 5 feet from the bedsheet which allowed enough room to use our puppets built on top of popcicle sticks. The closer to the light source the bigger the shadow became and the closer to the bedsheet the smaller the shadow became.

 

[ruinexplorer]

You might also want to consider an old slide projector. They should be fairly readily available.

 

[AshleyB]

resurrecting an old thread, since we're exploring shadow theatre for a production in the fall. found this very interesting vid. Looks like they're using overhead projectors for some effects, and then a lamp fixed to a handheld pole for others.

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