Yeah, I forgot my video monopod that day. It was close to the end of the day and my arms were killing me. If I could go back and re-shoot that, I would in a heartbeat.
Small (Potentially Portable) Stage Lighting
- Thread starterStradivariusBone
- Start date
Yeah, I forgot my video monopod that day. It was close to the end of the day and my arms were killing me. If I could go back and re-shoot that, I would in a heartbeat.
There's one big question here that can quickly invalidate all the posts so far. What kind of a budget are you looking at @StradivariusBone . My guess is you are going to say something like under $1000. In which case the only option you have is unistrut track, direct from china ebay LED's, and a lot of prayer.
David Ashton
Well-Known Member
That's actually been my first question. If you've never worked in a church before, you won't know the pure joy of trying to actually zero in on a dollar value. At least if they told me $100, I'd go down to the hardware store, buy a 10 pack of clip lights and order some gel and gaff tape and call it good. They haven't really established a budget for this, but they're telling me that there is "some money available".
In all honesty, I'm guessing we are in the $1-2k range with this project. I was also thinking PC-based controller. I've had good fortune with LightFactory, but there are a million out there. The power distribution is a concern because at worst we have 1 15amp circuit to tap (best- two 20amps). Combine that with the low ceiling and that's where I was pushing more towards the LEDs. I didn't mean to imply them as a replacement for tungsten, it just made more sense here.
It'd be nice to go a little beyond the china LED's, but as many of you have noted this ain't exactly the Met.
JD
Well-Known Member
Often in a church, it's more like $300 !
The trick that works is to try to put a small system together in the 1 to 2k price, see if you can borrow the equipment and demonstration it to your Vestry/Finance Committee. Once they see it, explain that the $300 just won't work, but we could do this for $x. Often, once seen, they are more inclined to agree to the needed price.
One other thought- Although computer based solutions give you the biggest "bang for the buck" (provided you have a spare computer), there is a lot to be said for a simple-to-explain conventional board such as a scene-setter or one of the chauvets. Remember, your operator may be on a short learning curve (like, 10 minutes before showtime!) so keep it simple.
The trick that works is to try to put a small system together in the 1 to 2k price, see if you can borrow the equipment and demonstration it to your Vestry/Finance Committee. Once they see it, explain that the $300 just won't work, but we could do this for $x. Often, once seen, they are more inclined to agree to the needed price.
One other thought- Although computer based solutions give you the biggest "bang for the buck" (provided you have a spare computer), there is a lot to be said for a simple-to-explain conventional board such as a scene-setter or one of the chauvets. Remember, your operator may be on a short learning curve (like, 10 minutes before showtime!) so keep it simple.
MarfaLights
Member
I loved Steve Terry's talk. Summarized as, "don't let technology override art." I agree completely but feel like he is among the last standing against the LED tide. I have resisted LEDs until this year. Now I may never do another gel color wash, but I'm not giving up my Source 4s either. When the grant money comes in, we'll buy ETC Desire X7 stuff for the main venue. Until then, a decent RGBAW does a great job for mobile events and color wash in the 200-seat regular venue. In fact, I'm about to go hang for a 14-piece band right now with LED color and Source4 front.
Wow. Long winded, and Pretentious to say the least.
Theses are things that everyone who has used LEDs already know. LEDs are not robbing us of our art, they are only adding another tool for us to utilize in the way that we see fit.
Seriously, saving the planet with LEDs is not the compelling interest, it being able to Use more fixtures in a crappy ballroom, with only wall power, or being able to put on a decent rock show, where there is only a 100A service, Or running less soca cable to a truss.
No one is forcing people into buying LEDs. I hardly think that LEDs are a "disruptive" technology, this guy probably hid in his closet when they introduced touch-tone phones, because they robbed him of the art of spinning his finger in a circle.
If he felt that The technology overshadowed a production, than its is a persons fault, not a piece of gear.
This was a presentation at USITT? Seemed High school theater class to me.
Also, Did they add a laugh track to this video?
STEVETERRY
Well-Known Member
Mr. Focus--
When you have amassed enough career credibility to make these types of rude and inept comments, please let us know.
Sincerely,
Steve Terry
VP R&D, ETC
To imply that the existence of LEDs is robbing people of their ability to make design decisions, is just silly, and displays a low opinion of your contemporaries. Certainly there are people who get overexcited about technology and apply it in wast that are not Ideal, but that is there prerogative. If you don't like it, don't do the same and don't see those shows; certainly you are welcome to speak about it, and you obviously have an audience.
Sorry is that came off very rude. I thought you were a boring presenter.
I do realize you have quite the career history and lots of accomplishments, and You seem to have no trouble tearing down other peoples work in a public forum; instead of hinting at who they are why not just say their names? Or the names of the productions?
Sorry is that came off very rude. I thought you were a boring presenter.
I do realize you have quite the career history and lots of accomplishments, and You seem to have no trouble tearing down other peoples work in a public forum; instead of hinting at who they are why not just say their names? Or the names of the productions?
JD
Well-Known Member
The thing is that many of the decisions regarding LED use are coming from the "corporate" level where there is often a lack of knowledge of the arts.
Best example is Disney. Don't get me wrong, Disney is near the top of the charts and has great designers. But... A few years back they announced that they are converting their parks over to LED. This included the lighting at most of their theater locations. While down there last year I was talking to one of their show designers and he related the pressure to include LED fixtures, or in some cases do complete shows with LED were pretty intense.
In an effort to improve "corporate" image, I suspect many designers are feeling non-artistic pressure.
Best example is Disney. Don't get me wrong, Disney is near the top of the charts and has great designers. But... A few years back they announced that they are converting their parks over to LED. This included the lighting at most of their theater locations. While down there last year I was talking to one of their show designers and he related the pressure to include LED fixtures, or in some cases do complete shows with LED were pretty intense.
In an effort to improve "corporate" image, I suspect many designers are feeling non-artistic pressure.
JD, This may be true, but I suspect it is the minority. LEDs are still defiantly in their infancy, but they do have their place. ETC was a little late to the game, but that is not a bad thing. Early LED fixtures were junk, and selling said junk has tainted some reputations. Some current stuff is pretty decent, but there are aspects of lighting that cannot be don well, or cost effectively with yet with LED. Lots of people felt the same way about moving lights, "they don't belong in theater," but they have more than two setting(off and BallyHoo), an now those people are dead, and we are happy to incorporate moving lights into shows, even if you never see them move.
If you show a "corporate" guy two fixtures on S4 @575, and one Selecon PLProfile4, even he will see that the S4 is way brighter, and the Selecon is way more expensive. (the selecon was drawing 465w at ~3200K, and gave 40% less light)
If you show a "corporate" guy two fixtures on S4 @575, and one Selecon PLProfile4, even he will see that the S4 is way brighter, and the Selecon is way more expensive. (the selecon was drawing 465w at ~3200K, and gave 40% less light)
Holy hijacked thread, Batman! Again I feel I must point out that I never sought to open warfare on tungsten vs. silicon. My thought process stemmed from a power structure and heat-related standpoint. My primary job is in a high school theatre where we employ no shortage of S4's. But that building was purposefully built to house those instruments with the appropriate power grid and HVAC systems in place.
The application here is going to be very close to a drop ceiling and in a room under 1000 sqft with lots of kids, and adults who may not fully appreciate the heat a fixture can generate. That's why I was thinking LED would be the best option. I was not trying to imply anything about art or craft, but functionality.
I'm sorry this has taken a turn toward the negative, my apologies for opening a can of worms.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The application here is going to be very close to a drop ceiling and in a room under 1000 sqft with lots of kids, and adults who may not fully appreciate the heat a fixture can generate. That's why I was thinking LED would be the best option. I was not trying to imply anything about art or craft, but functionality.
I'm sorry this has taken a turn toward the negative, my apologies for opening a can of worms.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JD
Well-Known Member
No need! Vector issues are a common feature and develop on their own. They can often be quite informative as long as they remain civil. In this case the "growing pains" of the industry are exposed, brought to light by the question of which way to go with change and/or expansion. Do you stick with a conventional system, or go with new technology? Doesn't matter if it's a church school theater or a 2000 seat venue. The same issues are exposed
David Ashton
Well-Known Member
there would hardly be a show where I don't use conventionals, movers and Leds and each has its function, in this case the conventionals need only be low power parcans or fresnels to light faces and the cheap Leds for colour and movement, you could use very expensive Leds to get reasonable flesh tones, but why bother as you would never get a return on your investment through power savings and there's not much can go wrong with a parcan, don't believe the mythical 50,000 hour life of a Led, never has a cheap Led lasted this long, either the Leds die or the power supplies or the fans.
There seems to be a school of thought that says "why use conventionals when Leds can do almost the same job for 10 times the price"
There seems to be a school of thought that says "why use conventionals when Leds can do almost the same job for 10 times the price"
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Above installed in 1994. Were it today, it would be LED down cans.
Sorry I didn't mention this before; I just thought of it. Since money is tight,
1. Have a licensed electrician replace the wall dimmers with toggle switches. Maybe keyswitches to prevent unauthorized use / accidental black-outs.
2. Buy as many track adapters (make sure they're compatible with your brand of track)
as you buy LED fixtures.
3. Mount Unistrut six inches or so parallel to the tracks.
4. You'll still have to run and dress the DMX cable. Note: Smart-Track® Lighting System by Altman eliminates all wires from view, but would get costly quickly.
5. Once everyone likes it, you'll have a better case for adding power/data/pipe grid in other parts of the room.
That is easily the coolest thing I've seen all week. I had no idea such an adapter existed, very cool!
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