Some Questions About Safety

There is no reason for the local school board not to install a catwalk system, or band dangerous ways of doing the lighting. Safer to put a couple of trees in the audiance for front lighting. This is life and death.

I have a similar situation in lower South Carolina. I saw a staff member (not a theatre type) climb some scafollding to do FOH, It was dangerous for him. The last school construction project was supposed to add a catwalk, but I haven't been there to look.


Someone should send this thread to that school board president and maybe to their county council
 
If you have good carpenters, Might I suggest building a rolling stair unit to the specifications of the seats. I'm not a huge fan of these, but then again I like dangling in high places. ( my father's side.he was a Bat.) the most impartan thing to remeber in building one of these contraptions is that cross bracing muct be as close to the top of the seat as possible, and you have to use bolts instead of Screws. The unit should streach over two seats at least and have some type of a standing platform at top. I've used these in a couple of places and there pretty popular around the Georgia region the major problem is that they tend to be both bulky and heavy, so if you can go that way be aware. They're cheap however and give you both hands free with out forcing you to maintain your balance. You still want to use a rope, and you still want railings on all three sides.
 
Someone should send this thread to that school board president and maybe to their county council
I agree with the philosophy, but school boards, especially where I live, tend to forbid you to use the system, rather than fix it.

One nearby school pestered the district to inspect the rigging. Instead of fixing the items on the list submitted by the inspection company, they just banned the theater department from working in the auditorium.
 
If the row clearance is that tight, there may be something to removing, either temporarily or permanently, a row of seats to allow the ladder/lift/scaff to get in there.

I've also never seen an impassible row of seats, so I wouldn't think you'd have to resort to that.

It would allow you to work safely and get the hang and focus done, and it may be enough of a "squeaky wheel" for The Powers That Be to do something about it, being after all a prime row of seats that aren't sellable if the seats aren't there.

But definitely get a scaff rep in there sooner rather than later: having seen your space, he'll have ideas of what will work. If the school won't buy it, at least you'll know what the theatre needs to rent.
 
I agree with the philosophy, but school boards, especially where I live, tend to forbid you to use the system, rather than fix it.

One nearby school pestered the district to inspect the rigging. Instead of fixing the items on the list submitted by the inspection company, they just banned the theater department from working in the auditorium.

I think you are saying that it's a bad thing that they closed the theater. Sorry but have to say it's a good thing. Theater is my life and I love teaching and sharing my love of theater with students... but it's just never worth the risk of killing or permanently injuring anyone.

My feeling is you push as far as you can to get it fixed... but if they won't fix it you don't go back and you make sure no one else goes back either.

A while back one of our CB friends posted a thread about a school he was hired to do some work in. When he complained that the job was unsafe they dumped him and hired someone else willing to work in unsafe conditions. That's a horrible thing to do my friends. It's either safe or it's not. If it's not you shouldn't do it. Especially in educational settings where the people who are most likely to die are under 18 years old. I'm sorry but high school theater is just not worth dieing over.
 
I agree with you completely! I just think it's also a matter of finding the best way to fight the battle. The original post doesn't sound like a hazard of the building, it's only dangerous when you try to hang lights. Non-theater administrative folks don't seem to understand the differences many times. I've learned to tread very carefully with my district, especially anything I put in writing regarding equipment or the auditorium.

On the other hand, my district is the same one who told me it isn't a safety hazard to not have emergency lighting in a black box. If the power goes out the room is like a cave, but it's not a safety problem! This fall I'm installing (code approved) battery powered safety lights that I had to purchase.
 
FYI OSHA does apply to High Schools.

OSHA's authority doesn't extend to public schools (unless the particular state has an OSHA law that does extend to state and local employees).


The OSH Act does not cover:

- The self-employed;
- Members of immediate family of farm employers that do not employ outside workers;
- Worker conditions that are regulated under worker safety or health requirements of other federal agencies;
- Employees of state and local governments; some states have their own occupational safety and health plans that cover these workers

See:
All About OSHA


Now, that does not mean that its okay to work in an unsafe manner, it just means that there is no government support.

Joe
 
Wow, it seems that everyone here pretty much has the same opinions on this issue. I have no knowledge of how our seats work, but if it's possible to remove a row or two temporarily, I like that idea. The problem with threatening the school with not being able to use the theatre/not having lights/not selling as many tickets, is that about 5 miles away is the other high school in our district, and their theatre is exactly the same as ours, except with a few less seats (and yes, it has this same problem too). So if they decide to shut down our theatre, they can always just travel to the other side of town and do their events in there.

I will definitely talk to someone as soon as the school year starts up again in the fall. My director/TD first, and if nothing happens there I'll start moving higher. We have an excellent theatre program, and I think it would take a lot for the powers-that-be to completely shut down our theatre. At least that's what I'm counting on...
 
if the school wants to shut down the theater, i'd get the parents involved. I know if my kid wanted to be in theater and they shut down the theater, i'd be yelling at the school, and tell them i'd like to switch schools.
 
Hey all,

As I've been browsing this forum more and more, I keep finding many references to safety and OSHA regulations and such. It all got me thinking about how safe our operations are at my high school when we're hanging and focusing FOH instruments.

We have a bar at FOH which hangs from the ceiling about 1/3 of the way into the audience. There's no catwalk or anything, the only way to get up here is from the ground. Since there are seats below the bar, we are forced to use a ladder that is about 16-20 feet long. But the legs will not fit between the rows of seats. So we have to become creative. We find a large wooden table with legs retracted and set it upside down resting on the seat backs. We mount the ladder on top of the table and viola - you have a wobbly and unsturdy ladder that can slide down the seat backs at will (which are slanted down by the way). Now to actually do anything up there, you obviously have to have instruments and tools. So you grab your 15 pound Source 4 and free climb the ladder. Now you're finally at the top, but to hang the instrument you need both hands. So you brace your legs against the side of the ladder and lean out to try to get the safety cable over the bar before you drop it. During all of this you're basically praying that the table-with-ladder doesn't decide to start sliding down the rows of seats, which if it doesn't make you fall immediately, will give you a nasty bruise or two when that table reaches the front row and there's no more seats. It's worth mentioning that we have no one waiting at the bottom holding the ladder or the table, and nothing even resembling a fall arrest system. Also, while the aisles are carpeted, the areas under the seats are just cement with nothing over them. But that's only if the hundreds of seat backs below you didn't break your fall (and your neck) first.

I'm kinda curious as to what others think of this. Since we're a high school and we're not paid, I'm pretty sure OSHA doesn't apply, but assuming it did, would they be mildly uneasy with our setup? Also, does anyone have any ideas about what could be done to make it safer? There's no way we can get anything under there due to the seats, our only possibility would be some sort of a Genie that can extend about 20 feet out to one side. And we can't drive a cherry picker into our theatre, so that's not an option either.

Unfortunately, I think it is this way at many other schools. At least 2 other schools in my area have this same situation, and those are just the ones I've seen. I also have seen photos on here and elsewhere of high school theatres with the same issues. Do you all do the same thing, or are you slightly less suicidal than us? I myself have been up on that ladder many times, including once when I came within inches of falling from the top. My right foot was the only thing that was still on the ladder, and I luckily managed to regain my balance. The next person may not be so lucky.

So... What do ya think?

Many schools are now installing motorized hoist systems for both scenery and electric pipes, precisely to avoid the safety issues you describe. It sounds like your FOH pipe is a prime candidate for a hoist. Many companies make these devices like DeSisti, Vortek, Clancy, and others.

Meanwhile, please don't ever do what you have described again! Walk away!

ST
 
Your situation sounds very familiar to me as well. We have a FOH bar as well, the ceiling is about 25' high, and it is about 15' back from the front of the stage. Lucky us though, our 21' (Max) Little Giant Ladder will fit between seats. We (unofficially) require anyone who will be hanging/focusing fixtures from that position to wear a safety harness. We are getting a Genie next year, and our school engineer has offered to be our "lift *****" whenever we need a fixture hung.
 
...We (unofficially) require anyone who will be hanging/focusing fixtures from that position to wear a safety harness. ...
A safety harness is just one part of a complete, professionally designed, engineered and installed, fall-protection system, with users trained in proper operation, inspection, and maintenance. If the rest of the system is not in place, a harness won't help, and could hurt. Also, "unofficially" is not the proper adverb to be used when discussing life-safety issues.
 
We do have a system of fall protection consisting of the harness, rope, and a belay (sp?) device. I can't explain how it is rigged up, but thelightingmancan does. He is certifited for setting up our type of system, and he does everytime.
Our first technical theater class is going to be taught next year. Then, our rule will be official.
 
Back to the original topic. Remember no one is asking to shut down the theater. What we are saying is that no one goes back up and adjusts lights the old way. Best solution would be to rent a scaffold or genie that will work in your space (contact your local scaffold company). Go up and relamp and focus everything then let it ride until you do it all again next year. If you use long life lamps and have pretty typical useage you should be able to get away with doing that once a year and it won't cost THAT much.
 
I believe this is the type of scaffolding you'd want to look into.


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This looks like a cool product...
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The web site says the scaffold can be adjusted in 4" increments so you should be able to adjust to just about any slope. Don't forget the outriggers! Looks like you can get a 12' high scaffold with outriggers, outrigger casters, and safety rail for about $1200. There are other options out there, this was just the first website I hit. Again call your local scaffold place and ask them to stop in and look at your situation. Every school can dig up $1200 if they really want to.
 
This looks like a cool product...
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The web site says the scaffold can be adjusted in 4" increments so you should be able to adjust to just about any slope. Don't forget the outriggers! Looks like you can get a 12' high scaffold with outriggers, outrigger casters, and safety rail for about $1200. There are other options out there, this was just the first website I hit. Again call your local scaffold place and ask them to stop in and look at your situation. Every school can dig up $1200 if they really want to.

Despite what your teachers and administrators might say, it's true.

In our last budget my principal found $12k for me to spend on a lighting/electrical upgrade, which was supplemented with another $32k from the district level, and in this year's budget we've already allocated $30k for new seats, another $7k for new house lighting, repainting the entire house, and additionally the control booth. All we need now is another $10k to fall from the sky to hit the price tag of $40k for the new seats we want.
 
That scaffolding does look interesting. I never really thought of using scaffolding, as I've only used ladders and genies when hanging and focusing. But that adjustable thing does look like it would work. Now i just need to find a local scaffolding place and convince my TD to get one. Thanks for all the advice.
 
A properly used scaffold is many times safer than a ladder as you have a platform as compared to a step. I can't put my hands on the article, but I believe that the accident per hour ratio of ladder to scaffold puts the scaffold at 20 times as safe. The key phrase is "properly" because I have seen some scaffolds that I would not go up for all the money in the world! Your base frame is the most important. (Make sure the leveling jacks are set right.) Getting the proper training on how to assemble and use a scaffold is critical. As for ladders, there are actually volumes of information on how to properly use a ladder. Not much information on the net about either as I think websites don't like to get sued. I have some great old books about ladder use from Western Electric. (Remember Ma Bell?) Anyway, you would be surprised at just how many things we do wrong with ladders! (Weight / height / angle ratios.)

Remember, for an uneven floor, you need to use a "swivel jack plate", not the standard flat one.
 
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