Conventional Fixtures Source Four Jr. Opinions?

[Frank]

Our little community theater might have a chance to buy a couple of new lighting instruments (but not much money!) and I'm wondering about the Source Four Jr. Zoom. I'm thinking the zoom feature gives it more flexibility and the 575w lamp fits with our dimmer pack. I'd appreciate any thoughts, opinions, etc. Typically these would be mounted ~30' from the stage, 18' in the air.

thanks!

 

[chris325]

I know from experience that the Source Four Jr. Zoom with a Rosco I-Cue works really well, and realy reduces the number of specials needed for a specific show. If you do end up going with the Jr. Zoom, I'd highly recommend investing in a couple of I-Cues.

Even as a standalone fixture, though, the Jr. Zoom does a really good job of providing a nice throw for a really reasonable price. The only thing I don't like about it is the lack of it's big brother's one-handed zoom adjustment, so zooming with it is a little more difficult.

 

[JChenault]

We use a mix of S4 Jr's and regular S4's in our space ( as well as some old Altman 360Q's and shakespeare units).

In the right application, I like the S4 Jr zooms a lot. They give a lot of flexibility and are a relatively inexpensive. However in your application I do not think I would recommend them. ( Assuming I am reading your needs correctly)

You say you will typically use them from about 30 feet out and 18 feet up from the acting area you want to light. This is a pretty long throw. If your measurements are from the floor, it gives me about a 32 to 33 foot throw to get to someone head. At 32 feet the field diameter will be 16 feet. The Beam diameter will be about 11 feet, and the max intensity will be around 80 footcandles.

This is pretty sloppy and pretty dim for area lighting.


If instead you went with something like the 19 degree S4 you would get a field / beam size of 10/8 feet. With the long life 575 watt lamp you would get about 130 foot candles.

The S4 Jr Zoom works nicely in short throw applications, where you need the flexibility of a zoom. If you are mostly looking for area lighting from 30 feet away I would just get a fixed focus S4.

 

[chris325]

This should provide you with all the exact throw distances, field/beam diameters, etc. for the Jr. Zoom.

 

[Frank]

Thanks everyone; I'm going to double-check my measurements and try to understand how these would work a little better.

 

[RTDesigns]

stick with altman...i hate the source 4 jr......shutters always jam, etc. the 360q is a lot better fixture, and you may be able to get one or two more instruments than you could for the cost of the source 4 units. just my opinion though.

 

[MNicolai]

stick with altman...i hate the source 4 jr......shutters always jam, etc. the 360q is a lot better fixture, and you may be able to get one or two more instruments than you could for the cost of the source 4 units. just my opinion though.

The 360Q is almost the same price as a Source Four Jr. Depending on your dealer, there's a $15 or so difference, at most. Stagelightingstore.com has the Jr. as the more inexpensive fixture, at $200. Those are for the standard fixtures, at least, not zooms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 360Q line does not include a zoom fixture. You could go with Altman's Shakespeare fixture, but it'll cost you at least twice as much as a Jr. Zoom. That's why the Jr. Zoom has market-share; in comparison to the standard Source Fours and the competing zoom fixtures, it's nearly impossible to beat the price.

My only problem with the Jr. is that I'm not a fan of the M-size gobo. Otherwise, I've had no problems with them. The Source Four Jr.'s are a little less bright than the Source Four and are only rated to 575w as opposed to 750w. If you can sacrifice the 750w source, a rotating barrel, and the A and B-size gobos, the Jr. isn't a bad fixture at all. Where you get into problems with shutter cuts is if you're shooting the light at angles that, for clean shutter cuts, should actually be performed with a rotating barrel.

 

[Nate1714]

If the throw is that far I would say get 19deg S4 or get some Altman 6x12's or such (depending on exact throws).

 

[Frank]

I double-checked the distances and it really is almost 30'. We have a 4' stage extension built out right now that reduces the distance if you're totally downstage, but close enough....

I'm back to thinking about 360Q's or 19* S4. We have 360Q's now but I keep hearing "good things" about the S4.

 

[kicknargel]

stick with altman...i hate the source 4 jr......shutters always jam, etc. the 360q is a lot better fixture, and you may be able to get one or two more instruments than you could for the cost of the source 4 units. just my opinion though.

I couldn't disagree more. I'd take a S4JR over a 360Q by a long shot. Funny-I associate sticky shutters w/ 360Qs. Plus with he S4 you get more lumens/watt, sharper focus, smoother focusing, and the ability to use glass gobos, irises and other accessories that require S4's heat sink capability.

And I think for the price I'd rather have 3 JRs than 2 normal S4s. Of course, if you need a 19deg, then you're a bit stuck. BTW, the Altman equivalent of a 19deg would be a 6x16.

I'm sure there is endless bickering about this to be found here on CB. . .

 

[bmiller025]

The Source Four is a more efficient, modern instrument than the 360Q. More light goes out the front, and way less heat is generated. I agree that the 25 degree beam angle of the Jr. Zoom is not sufficient for your needs though. The 19 degree full size Source Four would serve your needs better.

Production Advantage has them for $279, and the Jr. Zoom for $236!

I would also stay away from the Shakespeare. In my opinion, its a poorly thought out and poorly made copy of the Source Four.

 

[Grog12]

And I think for the price I'd rather have 3 JRs than 2 normal S4s. Of course, if you need a 19deg, then you're a bit stuck. BTW, the Altman equivalent of a 19deg would be a 6x16.

I'm sure there is endless bickering about this to be found here on CB. . .

You're right there would be. While I agree that in most situations I'd prefer a Jr over a 360q, I can't say the same for Jr vs full size.

The optics of the Jr just don't match up to a full size unit. They're great when you need them in low profile spaces like smaller blackboxes but in a true prosc setting their just anemic.

 

[RTDesigns]

I started out in theatre and touring over 30 years ago, and was raised on Altmans. I met some of the Altman family many years ago, and felt they had a good product, and the family ran a good company. I agree that there could be a lot of bickering over fixtures and their mfgs, it all boils down to what you are used to. My experience with the source4 jr zoom has not been a very good one. Within the first year of purchasing several, we had issues with lamp sockets and shutters. Just my opinion. Go with what you are comfortable with and what your budget will handle.

 

[Anvilx]

I think it depends on what condition the 360Qs are in. While I think that they are a really robust light if they aren't maintained they are not that fun. My theater's 360Qs are rusted (on the inside) and nasty. Some one even told me they were salvaged from a theater that burned down. Would I take these over S4jrs not in hell, but I can attest that 360Qs are a quality product that last the test of time.

 

[Frank]

After reviewing our needs (and budget) we decided to order a couple 26* S4 Juniors. I'll post how they work out. They seem to be the best compromise instrument for general lighting and as it turns out will work well for some special lighting needs for our next show.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

 

[Syphilis]

I just jumped to the end of the discussion, so apologies if this has been said before. I'm not a big fan of junior zooms.

If you're working in a small playing space, with a grid of 18 feet or lower, they do an adequate job. But if you're looking for adequate, you can get a hell of a lot more flood-type lights like fresnels or even PARs for the same price. I know, I know, isolation is important, but if you're looking for isolation, the standard Source 4 does an infinitely better job of it, and if you want the equal of the Zoom in terms of acceptable-ish quality, the same price can get you much more with altmans. I work in a theatre with both JZs and standard S4s that are the same age, and the Zooms are in much worse condition. It is my opinion that they are just built with worse craftsmanship than their big brothers.

My advice: get standard Source 4s, maybe with 36 degree barrels if you're working in a smaller space. The shutters won't break, the pan screw won't break, the tilt knob won't break, the yolk nut won't BREAK. You get the idea.

 

[Parker]

We use a mix of S4 Jr's and regular S4's in our space ( as well as some old Altman 360Q's and shakespeare units).

In the right application, I like the S4 Jr zooms a lot. They give a lot of flexibility and are a relatively inexpensive. However in your application I do not think I would recommend them. ( Assuming I am reading your needs correctly)

You say you will typically use them from about 30 feet out and 18 feet up from the acting area you want to light. This is a pretty long throw. If your measurements are from the floor, it gives me about a 32 to 33 foot throw to get to someone head. At 32 feet the field diameter will be 16 feet. The Beam diameter will be about 11 feet, and the max intensity will be around 80 footcandles.

This is pretty sloppy and pretty dim for area lighting.


If instead you went with something like the 19 degree S4 you would get a field / beam size of 10/8 feet. With the long life 575 watt lamp you would get about 130 foot candles.

The S4 Jr Zoom works nicely in short throw applications, where you need the flexibility of a zoom. If you are mostly looking for area lighting from 30 feet away I would just get a fixed focus S4.

Agreed. The fc on the jr zooms is poor. its less than i would have expected from a s4... but they do work well on a boom for a short throw situation.

 

[thatactorguy]

After reviewing our needs (and budget) we decided to order a couple 26* S4 Juniors. I'll post how they work out. They seem to be the best compromise instrument for general lighting and as it turns out will work well for some special lighting needs for our next show.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

I just jumped to the end of the discussion, so apologies if this has been said before. I'm not a big fan of junior zooms.

If you're working in a small playing space, with a grid of 18 feet or lower, they do an adequate job.

We use 26 degree S4jr at our theatre, and have been very happy with them since we started using them twelve years ago. We bought a couple at a time, and currently have twenty in our inventory (including three that are mine ). Our grid is just shy of 15', and from the DS most pipe to the US wall is right at 30'.

I think you'll be happy with the 26 degree instruments, but I wouldn't shoot much farther than 30'...

 

[thatactorguy]

After reviewing our needs (and budget) we decided to order a couple 26* S4 Juniors. I'll post how they work out. They seem to be the best compromise instrument for general lighting and as it turns out will work well for some special lighting needs for our next show.

Thanks again for everyone's comments.

If you're working in a small playing space, with a grid of 18 feet or lower, they do an adequate job.

We use 26 degree S4jr at our theatre, and have been very happy with them since we started using them twelve years ago. We bought a couple at a time, and currently have twenty in our inventory (including three that are mine ). Our grid is just shy of 15', and from the DS most pipe to the US wall is right at 30'.

I think you'll be happy with the 26 degree instruments, but I wouldn't shoot much farther than 30'...