the right lamp

[JonG]

Hey guys,

We recently went from a portable setup to a building for our church.

right now we have 550 watt lamps in 757 watt lekos. have to check on the make of the lamp.

since having our building our lekos have been going out a lot. maybe 1 lamp every other week. And they are all new lamps from April.

What is the best lamp out there to get for long lasting and good color temp?

Thanks

 

[JD]

Sure that's not 575 watt and 750 watt?
In any case, we need a bit more information, such as the brand of the fixture.
An ETC Source Four uses different lamps then say an Altman 360Q.

 

[derekleffew]

I'd guess since the OP said they were labeled 750 that we're talking about the Source Four.
From the ETC Wiki page:

Please follow these steps to ensure that you are enjoying the maximum life from your HPL lamps.

1. Be sure to observe proper lamp handling procedures and never touch the lamp envelope.
2. Check lamp socket for pitting and signs of arcing and replace as necessary.
3. Check voltage at the fixture with a true RMS voltmeter & trim dimmer output as necessary. The voltage output of the dimmer at full should not exceed the rating of the lamp. Various lamp voltages and hour ratings are available.
4. Try using lamps from a different production run / different manufacturer.

See also the threads:
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/29717-115v-vs-120v-lamps.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/29765-lamp-photos-troubleshooting.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/27104-hpl-lamp-use-school.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/28081-poll-what-kind-hpl-lamp-do-you-use.html

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...res-long-life-lamps-vs-high-output-lamps.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/21973-lamps-long-life-high-output.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/5345-hpl-575-750-your-source4.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/3665-difference-between-hpl-750-115-120s.html

 

[MarshallPope]

Also, it might help to know the scale of your rig. Are we talking about losing one lamp out of 5 every other week, or one out of 500?

 

[Aman121]

Are the lights mounted where vibrations from HVAC or other equipment could reach them? Vibrations will cut down lamp life severely, especially if they are present while the lamps are on.

 

[JonG]

Hey guys , they are ETC source 4's.. we currently have 20 lekos.

they hang from a pole from the ceiling. I would image that they do get vibrations from the live sound every week. You can hear the bass vibrate parts of the room when certain frequencies are hit.

 

[JonG]

any suggestions?

 

[josh88]

Derek gave you a bunch of threads to look at. How are the lamps being handled when they are installed? And what do they look like when they fail? Nothing out of the ordinary? There are extended life versions of the HPL if you're wanting to leave them up there and not worry about them for awhile those are probably the best way for you to go. Your only option is HPL so it's up to you to decide what wattage you want the lights at, how much power you have available and choose the flavor of lamp that matches.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JonG]

awesome, Thank you guys

i found this bulb with a color temp of 3065k
54807_1 - OSRAM 575W 115V HPL Long Life 3065k G9.5 Halogen Light Bulb for $16.28

our current lamp is this one with a color temp of 3265k
54622 - OSRAM SYLVANIA HPL 575w 115v Heat Sink Halogen light bulb for $20.95

would the color temp difference be noticeable if i started replacing the bad lamps with these, by eye, or video?

Thanks

 

[jhochb]

Good Morning JonG

A camera will pick up the difference.
Your eye may if you're looking for it but the lay person may not.

 

[derekleffew]

... i found this bulb with a color temp of 3065k
54807_1 - OSRAM 575W 115V HPL Long Life 3065k G9.5 Halogen Light Bulb for $16.28

our current lamp is this one with a color temp of 3265k
54622 - OSRAM SYLVANIA HPL 575w 115v Heat Sink Halogen light bulb for $20.95

would the color temp difference be noticeable if i started replacing the bad lamps with these, by eye, or video?

Perhaps more important than difference in color temperature is the output--Luminous Flux (measured in lumen s). In this comparison: 12,360 vs. 16,520 lumens. Both the camera and the eye WILL detect the lamp that is one-third brighter at the same dimmer setting. So you may find that you have to run the 300-hour lamp ~20% lower than the 2000-hour lamp to get them to match in intensity, which may result in them having about the same color temperature, and about the same life expectancy. Putting you right back where you started.

P.S. It pays to shop around. I thought it slightly odd that the particular vendor you cited charges a >$4 premium for the standard vs. long-life lamp. I found this:
OS HPL575/X 115V #54807 | OSRAM SYLVANIA | Halogen $18.45
OS HPL575 115V #54622 | OSRAM SYLVANIA | Halogen $18.82
It averages out the same, but depending on which lamp you choose, the savings can add up.
These two vendors may be the two largest volume suppliers on the Internet, but also don't neglect your local vendor, see Dealers for Supplies and Equipment - ControlBooth . A local vendor may meet or beat an Internet price, or he may tell you he simply can't compete--good to know either way. Lamp prices can vary daily like the price of gold or any other commodity. Also, there are both foreign and domestic manufacturers, and the value of the US dollar can further complicate pricing. I believe Osram-Sylvania, GE, Philips, Ushio, and Wiko are the major manufacturers of HPL lamps. I'd avoid all other brands if possible. If you were a school, I'd say to check with your district's purchasing agent, as they may have a negotiated or government bid arrangement with a particular vendor in order to achieve the lowest costs.

Good luck, JonG, and be sure to report back here with your research and experiences.

 

[DELO72]

Perhaps more important than difference in color temperature is the output--Luminous Flux (measured in lumen s). In this comparison: 12,360 vs. 16,520 lumens. Both the camera and the eye WILL detect the lamp that is one-third brighter at the same dimmer setting. So you may find that you have to run the 300-hour lamp ~20% lower than the 2000-hour lamp to get them to match in intensity, which may result in them having about the same color temperature, and about the same life expectancy. Putting you right back where you started. .

Yeah, I agree with Derek on this one. I personally can/could see the difference of 200 deg. K. Also that's a huge decrease in lumens.

If your lamps are going out "every other week" you have far bigger issues than the life of the lamp. Something is definately causing them to have a shortened life as a previous poster mentioned- building vibration, heat, cooling, power, etc. Have you checked the voltage at the fixtures? If you have 115V lamps and the circuit is putting out 117-119V, that would easily explain it. In that case your best bet is to switch to 120V HPLs. I'd stay with the 300hr. versions for highest output. If you want to increase the life you can also profile your dimmers to Full @98% or similar and that will increase their life a lot.

The thing to consider with buying lamps is this- You can ALWAYS find ways to increase their life and get less output (profile the dimmers, don't run them at full, make sure you do a warm-up cue before every show and bring them to full (another warm-up cue) after every show to run the Halogen cycle. )-- but it's a lot harder to find ways to increase the output. So my suggestion is to buy the brightest version, and if you even want lower output in exchange for higher life, don't run them at 100%.


Cheers,

Mark

ps. Long life lamps won't be more "durable" to warding off the vibration. All things being equal if the bass from the speakers are killing the lamps after a few weeks, they will likely kill the "long life" ones similarly. Just an FYI so you don't get accidentally led down a path.

 

[ship]

Hey guys,

We recently went from a portable setup to a building for our church.

right now we have 550 watt lamps in 757 watt lekos. have to check on the make of the lamp.

since having our building our lekos have been going out a lot. maybe 1 lamp every other week. And they are all new lamps from April.

What is the best lamp out there to get for long lasting and good color temp?

Thanks

550w lamps? What's the voltage rating stamped on them next to the wattage? Assuming 750w Lekos in typo, if 550 Watt lamps in them, a week on a normal non-duplexing dimmer would be really good and I'm sure they are really bright. If Dimmer Duplexing, the answers now go thru a new round of lamp recommendations and troubleshooting including socket and electrical problems. Again, what's the listed voltage on the lamp and what is the voltage you are operating at?

"FYI so you don't get accidentally led down a path" LED Lekos... saw one today but didn't look, a few of them on the market now in looking at past ones.

Normally from what I see, extended life lamps and high output lamps are the same price. One would think an extended life lamp would cost more were there some form of costs more type of thing.

 

[DELO72]

Normally from what I see, extended life lamps and high output lamps are the same price. One would think an extended life lamp would cost more were there some form of costs more type of thing.

Well that's what we Manufacturers thought too-- but no one wants to pay more for double the life. It doesn't make sense. So we have to do what the market supports, which means we slowly put ourselves out of business. You'd think it would be common sense that if you buy a lamp that lasts 100 hrs. and it costs $2, and there is the same lamp that lasts 500 hrs., that it would be worth $10 (You buy 5x fewer, so you should pay 5x more?) or at least 3-4X the price? But nope. People just see that initial price and don't consider the savings over time (not having to buy 4 more in the same period), and that larger cost scares the hell out of them. So while Long Life lamps (HPLs, GLAs, GLEs, etc.) SHOULD cost double or triple, or quadruple, the price is almost the same.

Please folks. PLEASE BUY SHORT LIFE LAMPS!

*smirk*

 

[icewolf08]

Well that's what we Manufacturers thought too-- but no one wants to pay more for double the life. It doesn't make sense. So we have to do what the market supports, which means we slowly put ourselves out of business. You'd think it would be common sense that if you buy a lamp that lasts 100 hrs. and it costs $2, and there is the same lamp that lasts 500 hrs., that it would be worth $10 (You buy 5x fewer, so you should pay 5x more?) or at least 3-4X the price? But nope. People just see that initial price and don't consider the savings over time (not having to buy 4 more in the same period), and that larger cost scares the hell out of them. So while Long Life lamps (HPLs, GLAs, GLEs, etc.) SHOULD cost double or triple, or quadruple, the price is almost the same.

Please folks. PLEASE BUY SHORT LIFE LAMPS!

*smirk*

//aside//
I always buy the short-life, high output lamps. They look better! except for our worklights, those get long life lamps.

 

[ship]

Every few months I get the Ushio dealer stage and studio sales catalog that of couse puts HPL lamps on sale every sales add. GE, Philips and Osram are from other sources the same in price long life or high output in lamp cost. I buy about a half million a year in lamps per year as a buyer, I get dealer to OEM prices range on lamps and am telling you that there is no price difference between long life verses high output lamps for cost. This at least for cost in dealer buy, could be a sub-dealer is correct in price from their supplier, than mark up further as a percentage for their own profit. Could be their supplier is correct in price for the lamp. Seemingly someone if higer in price for the long life lamp is doing something.

Would be interested in what other and especially net suppliers charge in price for long life verses high output lamps in telling you that the "cost" is the same for the lamps.

Mark is of course tongue and cheek in saying sell more high output cheaper lamps that have less lamp life. Yes sell more lamps but the point is that the lamps cost the same overall and there should not be this difference in price with at least a HPL lamp. If you have this difference in price, question it if not say bye bye for supplier if that's the stance.

 

[josh88]

But nope. People just see that initial price and don't consider the savings over time (not having to buy 4 more in the same period), and that larger cost scares the hell out of them.

And that's the key for me. I KNOW some things are of better value and we should pay more for something that will last longer and save money in the long term, but for as many times as I explain it and justify the price of something, the money huggers don't get that by giving me more now, I'll take less later. Also as dumb as it is, if I don't spend the same amount on stuff each year I'll lose money in my budget for next year. Now this is with everything, not just lamps, but it's a problem across the board.

Though I am finally buying Osram lamps so there's that at least