There is something wrong here...

[icewolf08]

Be forewarned, this may get a little ranty and may be better suited for either the "What went wrong" forum or the "Education" forum. If anyone thinks that this post belongs elsewhere I will move it. I think that my thoughts are also a little disjointed, so I apologize for that in advance if you find it as such.

I was at a performance of one acts at a local high school here in UT on Saturday and I couldn't help but take this photo to share with all of you. There is a lot going on here, and most of it is not good...

First of all, let me tell you that the current setup of this blackbox space had the stage at the end perpendicular to the lighting positions. This was the first highly illogical move to me. In the rats nest up there I couldn't even tell if any of the fixtures have safeties, and of course you can also see those nice little orange cube-taps... There is also a rigging nightmare that is not in frame in the photo which is probably a good thing because that shouldn't be discussed or even thought of... The list goes on and on.

There are a few things I know about the situation at this HS, and I think that it should serve as a point of education for some of our younger members. The so-called TD at this high school is currently a student at a local college, this HS was where he went to school. Why the public school system would hire someone into a position like this is beyond me. No school would hire a teacher with that level of experience, so how can they justify hiring someone for a TD position with such a deficit in experience. The point is that this is a perfect example of the "big fish in a small pond" syndrome that we talk about so often here. Here is a person who has not been able to separate from whatever he was in HS, and probably because of that is depriving current students of the educational experience they deserve.

Of the shows that I have seen at this school (and I have had reason to see a few) I have been in awe of the fact that they can't even seem to point a light at the stage and light actor's faces. But his is how it was always done and this is what this "TD" knows how to do and can't change because this is the way it is. Couple that with everything that is wrong in the photo above, the severe lack of apparent concern for safety and you have a big mess.

The major point that I would like to make here is to all of our students heading off to college to study theatre. The best thing that you can do is just separate yourself from high school. It was probably a great time, and you were probably the top dog, but all good things come to an end, and it is time to actually learn to do things right. If you were lucky enough to have a good teacher/TD in HS that is great, but you still need to make room for the up and coming students. Even if you think that there just isn't anyone as good as you, there really is someone who will find a way to fill your shoes. The other thing about going back to your HS after you graduate is that it holds you back. You will be less receptive to what you are being taught in school or in life if you are continually just going back to the place you feel comfortable and just keep doing what you have been doing.

Look again at the photo above. It is kinda scary to think that this could happen anywhere. On the other hand, I would venture to guess that it is more common than we really want to think. While I am sure that a technician from this school could probably identify the problems, it sure doesn't look like anyone took any time to correct them.

I hope that a photo like this serves as a reminder that what we do is a craft and an art. No matter how small the show is, what the venue is, who the cast and crew are, or who the audience is, there is no excuse for taking shortcuts. For most things that we do in theatre there actually is a right way and a wrong way, and what you see in this photo is wrong, and hopefully if any of you HS students work under conditions like this you will learn enough here to start to change them. We all have to remember to be humble (everyone from the youngest tech in high school to the seasoned veterans) as there is always something that we can learn from someone else, and inevitably there is always someone who knows more than you, has more experience than you, and is more qualified than you.

As an aside, I am working to be in touch with the appropriate people at the school to hopefully make some changes.

 

[Anvilx]

No matter how small the show is, what the venue is, who the cast and crew are, or who the audience is, there is no excuse for taking shortcuts. For most things that we do in theatre there actually is a right way and a wrong way, and what you see in this photo is wrong, and hopefully if any of you HS students work under conditions like this you will learn enough here to start to change them. We all have to remember to be humble (everyone from the youngest tech in high school to the seasoned veterans) as there is always something that we can learn from someone else, and inevitably there is always someone who knows more than you, has more experience than you, and is more qualified than you.

As a HS student I find I am up against the whole, "this is the way so and so did it and so its ok to do it like this" mentality, even if it is totally wrong. Unfortunately as a student you are only so powerful. So while I do point out things that are unsafe, half the time I get a grin and I'm told it is not a big deal or that it is fine and I shouldn't worry. For that reason I often place myself in charge of situations where the goal is to make a smart decisions. While I don't know everything, I know enough that I can do the task at hand, safely and not rush through it just to check it off. The best part about doing things the right way is that you only have to do it once.

On another note are those monkeys?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

That is just atrocious.

I'm trying to figure out what the heck is going on with that plot, let alone the incredible lack of attention to safety. I hope you can influence some changes around there... the kids deserve to learn the correct way of doing things.

 

[shiben]

I love all the monkeys and DJ effects box up there too. Other than that, not a whole lot to love, the guy who okd that cabling deserves a beating or something. Piss Poor job there. Also, it looks like there are no safeties, and if nothing else, its a very ugly job.

 

[MNicolai]

I can faintly make out safeties on the fixtures, at least against the cyc.

Yes, the cabling is ugly, but I see nothing "wrong." Sometimes you need to get your circuits from wherever they're available. Ugly is not synonymous with dangerous.

 

[Les]

Yes, the cabling is ugly, but I see nothing "wrong."

The orange cube taps are wrong.

Also, not directly related to electrical, but the monkeys are a definite fire hazard.

 

[Anvilx]

The orange cube taps are wrong.

Also, not directly related to electrical, but the monkeys are a definite fire hazard.

Yes. But I think the monkeys are supervising.

 

[MNicolai]

The orange cube taps are wrong.

Also, not directly related to electrical, but the monkeys are a definite fire hazard.

Cube taps, yes.

Monkeys? No more a hazard than anything else found suspended from rigging in theatres. I don't see any fire marshal judging the monkeys to be close enough to any light fixtures to be problematic.

There is some amount of common sense that falls into safety. A monkey suspended in the middle of a pipe is not a fire hazard. Toss a couple lights on at either end of the pipe, unless the stuffed animals are known for their ability to spontaneously combust, still are not fire hazards.

The other factor is that when fire marshals examine hazards, they judge the amount of material at risk. Even if a monkey lit on fire, it does not pose a significant risk to the rest of the theatre. There is simply not enough material within them to hold sustain a flame long enough. That is if the soft goods are well-enough maintained on their flame retardant, which would extinguish as soon as an open flame is no longer present. None of the stuffed animals are even close enough to the soft goods to pose a risk to them.

If any of those stuffed animals were to cause a fire, from what I can see in that photo, it would be by mere freak accident.

People have a habit here at CB to look at something unusual and shout "Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!" before actually calculating the risks at hand. Just because its unusual doesn't make it dangerous.

 

[shiben]

I can faintly make out safeties on the fixtures, at least against the cyc.

Yes, the cabling is ugly, but I see nothing "wrong." Sometimes you need to get your circuits from wherever they're available. Ugly is not synonymous with dangerous.

As for the safeties, it could be my monitor. Ill hook up to a nice HD one when I get off shift. As for the cabling, I would say that the cube taps are wrong, the hanging parts are sketch, and the entire thing is ugly. A venue I used to work for had a similar situation in terms of getting circuits from electric to electric, but at least bundle them into a neat loom and drape them nicely. There is one that is hanging more than several feet down in a loop (maybe not a total safety hazard, but quite unprofessional)! The monkeys I just think look funny, if nothing else.

 

[CSCTech]

Well being a HS student aswell, It kind of makes me realize how well things are done here.

Where where these electrics by the way? Assuming above the stage? Just doesn't look like it from the picture.

If one of those monkeys fell on a light, *poof*.
I cannot even make out what that mass of lights in the corner is, and again with the orange splitters.
Random DJ light on other side?

There seems to be no way to bring down a single electric since there are wires running between them.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Unless they're being overloaded and passing their 15 amp rating, why are cube taps wrong?

 

[Les]

Cube taps, yes.

Monkeys? No more a hazard than anything else found suspended from rigging in theatres. I don't see any fire marshal judging the monkeys to be close enough to any light fixtures to be problematic.

...unless the stuffed animals are known for their ability to spontaneously combust, still are not fire hazards.

...The other factor is that when fire marshals examine hazards, they judge the amount of material at risk. Even if a monkey lit on fire, it does not pose a significant risk to the rest of the theatre. There is simply not enough material within them to hold sustain a flame long enough.

...None of the stuffed animals are even close enough to the soft goods to pose a risk to them.

...If any of those stuffed animals were to cause a fire, from what I can see in that photo, it would be by mere freak accident.

...People have a habit here at CB to look at something unusual and shout "Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!" before actually calculating the risks at hand. Just because its unusual doesn't make it dangerous.

I can't believe I'm arguing on here about stuffed monkeys, but I digress.

CSCTech has an excellent point in my opinion. Sure those monkeys aren't hazards the way they are now, but what if one falls on to a light? Maybe there's no light under one right now, but do you think that when they do move an instrument, they will bother to move a monkey hanging above it with the foresight that it may fall on to an instrument? I highly doubt it. And I'll bet a molten polyester monkey will burn long enough to create some toxic smoke that could be a significant danger to anyone around it. Also, if it catches on fire, you have to think of its surroundings. It on its own may not burn for very long, but once it starts melting cables and causing subsequent electrical fires, you betcha it's a fire hazard. These may seem like long shots, but usually fires start in a way that no one ever really even considers. It's this mindset that causes people to do stupid and dangerous things -- like hanging mattress padding on club ceilings for 'better acoustics'.
Fire marshals don't look at a situation and say "well, the likelihood of that catching on fire is about so-so, but even if it did, there's nothing around it that could burn". If it is a fire hazard in itself and its environment (and somewhere where it doesn't belong), it is dangerous to the whole building. You also have to think about the potential dripping inferno that would result from a stuffed animal catching on fire. What's that floor covered with? What is below this "contained" fire? You have to think of all those things.

------------

Re: Orange Cube Taps. They're about as bad as orange extension cords on stage IMO. They're not designed for the heavy usage, and they aren't designed to be used around hot lighting instruments. Those look like 3-tap cubes. If each cube is powering 3 750w fresnels, they are over the limit. If those fresnels are 1,000w, they are a fire waiting to happen. These fresnels are Altman 1KF's. This means that it could be really easy to load one with 3,000w and not realize that you're doing anything wrong 'till it melts.

Re: Whistle blowing. That's because it IS dangerous. This situation is unusual, and it is also unsafe.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Again playing devils advocate, there is nothing different between a Black and an Orange cube tap except the color of the vinyl.


Not saying what they are doing is necessarily right, just making the point that there is a proper and improper use of any piece of equipment.

 

[Les]

Again playing devils advocate, there is nothing different between a Black and an Orange cube tap except the color of the vinyl.


Not saying what they are doing is necessarily right, just making the point that there is a proper and improper use of any piece of equipment.

There is also no difference between orange 14 gauge extension cords and black 14 gauge extension cords except the color of the vinyl.

There is a proper use for this type of equipment -- Powering power tools, etc. For lighting you use 12/3 SOOW Jumpers and real two-fers.

(I know you know this, I just want to make sure everyone else knows I know this).

 

[gafftapegreenia]

There is also no difference between orange 14 gauge extension cords and black 14 gauge extension cords except the color of the vinyl.

Not necessarily, there are many, many types of jacket material on 14 gauge flexible cord in the world. Still doesn't mean they get to be used as stage cable.

So I take it everyone in this thread is for the banning of black/orange/green cube taps in the lighting world? I bet a lot of rental shops would like to argue. Any stage device can be overloaded. Take a circuit on a 2.4K dimmer that repeats twice. Some noob plugs a two-fer in one, then plugs three 1K Fresnels total into that circuit. I'm willing to bet the breaker will trip before catastrophic damage occurs. It's why all the fail safes are in place, so those of us that know how to use the equipment do, and those that don't don't end up burning the place down.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

And now here's my other rant:

Now, this board loves to rant and rave about how 12/3 SOOW cable is the only type of flexible temporary cable approved for use on stage. Now, aside from the rare instances that have proven as exceptions, (the multi cable break out or break in using SJOOW), it's still pounded that the 12/3 SOOW is the only proper stage cable.

Now here's my question. How many of you out there plug in a fogger, a hazer, a bubble machine, a box fan, a scroller power supply, or heck, even a clip light using something other than 12/3 SOOW? Quiet a few I'd bet, and don't even think twice. 12/3 SOOW wasn't specified solely because of the amperage loads its able to handle, but because of the ABUSE its designed to handle. Water, grease, oil, traffic, and all the other rigors of stage life are why its specified to be used. So if we want to be hard-arsed, technically, then, I guess we should all be using 12/3 SOOW to power everything, because its all subject to the same abuse. A cable that gets stepped on/dragged/picked takes the same abuse no matter what its powering. 120v is 120v regardless if its 60w or 2K.

Now don't get me wrong. You know I'm not using 12/3 SOOW on my clip lights, but sometimes I think there is a tendency to get a tad over zealous and lose sight of real world situations where professionals/knowledgeable individuals know how to properly use all types equipment in all types of conditions and select equipment based on the application. There is a level of discretion that comes with experience that no Internet forum can give. While I know we have to do our best to comply to our TOS and keep our members from killing themselves, which prevents us from always being able to give in depth technical advice, I think we have to be careful to keep from treating too many things as absolute fact (the one indisputable, absolute fact being: never fly d.y.i.)

That said, its a shame to see an educational facility such as that one in the state its in, but if I've learned anything from exposure to high school/community theatre, its that this is the norm. These situations exist, they are out there, and people are using them every day and its a miracle more people don't get killed. Not everyone can have Source 4 everything, not everyone can afford renovations, but if I know anything, its that old equipment CAN be maintained, that there is ALWAYS money when safety is #1, and an old venue with old equipment can be safe, and a new one vice versa. It's not what a place has, its the people who's hands its in. There is something truly wrong with educational theatre in America that one of the most dangerous places in a school building, namely the theatre, is often run with no oversight or by someone completely incompetent or unqualified. I've seen brand new places squandered because not a soul in the building can operate the gift they were given. I think this issue is one that needs serious consideration. It's terrifying to know that there are students out there with actual credible knowledge who's concerns are never heard because some power tripping faculty member will never listen. There are ticking time bombs across the country with people who's luck is just waiting to run out.

blah. /rant

 

[Les]

So I take it everyone in this thread is for the banning of black/orange/green cube taps in the lighting world? I bet a lot of rental shops would like to argue. Any stage device can be overloaded.

The jacket color re extension cords was mostly trivial; it ain't meant for stage was my point. But you know this and we agree on that.

Cube taps, etc. It all depends on what it is rated for. I'm not talking ampacity here, I'm talking usage. Heavy Duty, Medium Duty, Light Duty...

The utility grade (light duty) cube taps are real handy for small lighting setups and stuff, and on the deck they may be ok under close supervision. But they belong on no electric, and they are not rated for stage use. The fire marshal would agree and I would like to see the rental shops argue with that. Remember these rental shops are usually more "do as I say, not as I do" as many have been voiding UL ratings on 360Q's for years by using the FEL lamps.

 

[Les]

And now here's my other rant:

Now, this board loves to rant and rave about how 12/3 SOOW cable is the only type of flexible temporary cable approved for use on stage. Now, aside from the rare instances that have proven as exceptions, (the multi cable break out or break in using SJOOW), it's still pounded that the 12/3 SOOW is the only proper stage cable.

Now here's my question. How many of you out there plug in a fogger, a hazer, a bubble machine, a box fan, a scroller power supply, or heck, even a clip light using something other than 12/3 SOOW? Quiet a few I'd bet, and don't even think twice. 12/3 SOOW wasn't specified solely because of the amperage loads its able to handle, but because of the ABUSE its designed to handle. Water, grease, oil, traffic, and all the other rigors of stage life are why its specified to be used. So if we want to be hard-arsed, technically, then, I guess we should all be using 12/3 SOOW to power everything, because its all subject to the same abuse. A cable that gets stepped on/dragged/picked takes the same abuse no matter what its powering. 120v is 120v regardless if its 60w or 2K.



blah. /rant

We agree on something! I think that there is in fact some hypocrisy when it comes to these 'loop holes'. You could even take it a step further and ask "is that 6' molded hazer cord as suitable as SOOW?" Can it take abrasion, heat, etc?

It's kind of like when everyone gets nervous being around an instrument missing its safety cable. Don't get me wrong; I am the biggest safety cable advocate here. But by a show of hands, who gets nervous walking in to a gymnasium full of HID lights? They are not safety cabled. They may have a safety chain of some type, but speaking from experience, it is not as substantial as a safety cable and most HID lights are heavier than stage lights. Normally they are hooked HOOKED to eye bolts in the trusses. No other mechanical fastening is applied.

 

[chris325]

Yes. But I think the monkeys are supervising.

That would explain every single screwup in every high school theatre on the planet. (Not to say my school's auditorium is run by monkeys, it's completely the opposite there, but in that situation, monkeys seem to be the only reasonable explaination.)

 

[icewolf08]

Let me address a couple of my safety concerns. First off, there is that one really dangly loop of cable that was barely above head high. It would certainly have been plenty easy for a patron to snag it while putting on their coat. All of the cabling was off the shelf home improvement store cable. It may also be hard to see that much of the cable was being held up by gaff, which in general may not be terrible, but it looked like a lot was starting to release probably due to being applied over dust.

I realize that sometimes you don't have the means to do things the best way, it happens to all of us. I am guilty of taking shortcuts every now and then. My main concern was that I know that this school has the appropriate gear, but was not utilizing it or was not using it correctly.