Twist-Lock connectors in schools

Very thankful for that part of info. Same 1950's time line as Leko's started to go P-22 instead of P-28s lamp socket for fixture/lamp history. The NEMA system no doubt wasn't invented yet, might the plugs been more a non-NEMA, California standard? Lots of details and history in 50's changes.
So now we get to a new black hole in history... Why did in the 50's... between the P-22 (with sucky lamp sockets), and also you state a twist lock in use? The industry mostly gret back to stage pin and P-28s until the later 70's or 80's for going back to twistlock? But stayed P-22s until the thoroughly halogen and modern G-9.5 based lamp?
I Have Century lamp sockets with punch outs for either version and have in museum inventory both versions of the lamp socket.
I also have various stage pin plugs to 1910, and even some semi-twist crows feet I call them from 1910. Less lock than kind of twist lock. Let us all know more in this black hole in plugs used. History is important.
 
I'd hate working in a space like this. Why do I need three times the cable inventory to power 120v units? What if I want my par to be a worklight one day and then dimmed as part of the show the next? Why am I still renting a distro and pulling mult when I need 208v, and why am I running really long cables for circuits that are the right flavor for my needs? I get wanting to save people from themselves, and I'm sure I'm not the target audience for this space, but we all know what idiot-proofing does...
All, I can say is that there are a TON of Theatre consultants that would disagree with you. I feel that in an educational setting it's extremely useful. as the stock of fixtures are also properly cord-capped, you only keep enough adapters for limited work; chances of an 'Idiot-proof' system failing are greatly reduced. Of ourse the chances you'll be killed by a chicken are low, but never 0%. :grin:
 
All, I can say is that there are a TON of Theatre consultants that would disagree with you. I feel that in an educational setting it's extremely useful. as the stock of fixtures are also properly cord-capped, you only keep enough adapters for limited work; chances of an 'Idiot-proof' system failing are greatly reduced. Of ourse the chances you'll be killed by a chicken are low, but never 0%. :grin:
"Why did the chicken cross the road? To attack the lighting designer. Chef says "try our frog's legs, we can't sew 'em back on! I'll be back for the midnight show after I bus the tables and do the dishes."
 
Yes, there were Twist Locks in the 1950's (patent issued to Hubbell in 1935). When I was a student in Physics in the 60's we would take a monthly trip to the state surplus warehouse in Nashville that had old stuff from the federal government including the Air Force and Oak Ridge National Lab. Some of the rack mount equipment had pre NEMA locking connectors including chassis panel mount styles called "midget Twist-Lock". Many of the grounding plugs used at Oak Ridge were a crow's foot design called "polarized 3-wire attachment plug caps" that became NEMA 10-20 and predate the grounding parallel blade design now enshrined as NEMA 5-15. The U ground add-on was a later update when grounding became more of a concern in the early 1960's. For what it's worth, Harvey Hubbell patented most of the electrical connector designs used in the US.

The primary reason stages have Twist Locks instead of pin plugs has to do with the need to tie a string around a pin plug pair to prevent the cable pulling loose. When I was working as a student in a theater built in the 1920's many of the pin plugs had sprung and it was often necessary to stick a knife blade into the slot of the brass pins to improve the connection. That could be a little tricky as too much expansion resulted in a plug that would not fit...
 
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"Why did the chicken cross the road? To attack the lighting designer. Chef says "try our frog's legs, we can't sew 'em back on! I'll be back for the midnight show after I bus the tables and do the dishes."

Now that's an outright lie. A chicken some how showed up outside of our theater in the middle of downtown today and it didn't attack me. Though I'm sure some raccoon or something else will be attacking it soon if it's still wandering around after the sun goes down.

chicken..jpg


But, but, but...there ARE "locking-type connector" Edison (NEMA 5-15) connectors too! Whether they actually work is another story.

I feel the Harj-Lock never really got a fair chance. Probably because of the dumb name.

A couple of our big vacuum cleaners had short tails with them. They seemed to work pretty well. I ended up replacing them with long cables though to keep the janitorial contractors from trying to plug them into 100+ feet of 16 gauge extension cords.
 
Now that's an outright lie. A chicken some how showed up outside of our theater in the middle of downtown today and it didn't attack me. Though I'm sure some raccoon or something else will be attacking it soon if it's still wandering around after the sun goes down.

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A couple of our big vacuum cleaners had short tails with them. They seemed to work pretty well. I ended up replacing them with long cables though to keep the janitorial contractors from trying to plug them into 100+ feet of 16 gauge extension cords.
Aye, she's got the beak of a killer! Talons of titanium! Your Audio Department camo worked. /nudge, wink
 
Thanks all on the forum and topic by the way! After a few weeks of hard work on-site and in shop... both comic and new education and debate on a topic reminds me what we come to the website for.

On our old L5-15 stock Hubbell stock... Explains some from the 70's why called Hubbell. When does the trade name or pattent run out on "twist lock?" Or does it?

Just spent the past week bodging together what I could for 5-15 and L5-20 plugs, connectors and receptacles from shop stock, and McMaster Carr Will call pick up in helping a scenic company get their part of the project done. I was working with Leviton, Hubbell, Pass & Seymore and Bryant plugs/connectors of all brands for both types of plug especially in the L5-20 range. Each brand is unique in age and style. Even making some what I call illegal adaptors by way of two connectors into one plug for a twofer. I still will not make them as a norm, and cut them up if they get retured, "A Plug is not an interconnection device." Though the L5-20 Plugs used were more benevolent in inserting 2x 12ga wires into terminals, and the cord grips were more accepting than 15A versions I normally work with.

Scenic company I was working with, I worked for almost 30 years ago. It was nice to chat with the on-site ME for them who apparently started working for them a year after I left. And was cool that both of were kindered in equal skilled in getting stuff done. We wired up light panels, or strung up DMX cable as per a team while others from his shop did what was needed for us as a team to advance. Strange for me in seeing the same Black & Decker drill in use I used almost 30 years ago, here I was showing off some new tools I have budget for buying.

That company was using a crappy Bryant type of Edison plug I think I remember using way back when. . And if feeding 12 gauge, even SJ wire into it... You need to punch out that part of the body of the housing so it fits.... No concerns about sharp edges by way of punching out, or weather resistance.

Too many words on my part and more details. Fascinating install, mostly I worked in making stuff out the side door of the work van after measuring and figuring out what was needed. Days in the shade of sun on a decently cool days. Making cable jumpers.. believe I am at 6 minutes per cable in cutting, and plugging both ends of them in quickness still.
 
But, but, but...there ARE "locking-type connector" Edison (NEMA 5-15) connectors too! Whether they actually work is another story.

I feel the Harj-Lock never really got a fair chance. Probably because of the dumb name.
The Harj-Lock had a lifetime of about 12 mating cycles, after which the locking "finger" in the plug grounding pin bent and was unceremoniously cut off, never to lock lock again. It was atrocious, and the market spoke.

ST
 
Which reminds me...

On more than one occasion, (so two), I've had professional crew members insert, but not twist, a pair of Turnlok connectors. At which point their come-apart-abilty is greater than Edisons.
 
There have been non-standard locking versions of the 5-15; they use a mechanical lock rather than twisting
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All, I can say is that there are a TON of Theatre consultants that would disagree with you. I feel that in an educational setting it's extremely useful. as the stock of fixtures are also properly cord-capped, you only keep enough adapters for limited work; chances of an 'Idiot-proof' system failing are greatly reduced. Of ourse the chances you'll be killed by a chicken are low, but never 0%. :grin:

I can't agree with you, Van. Isn't the educational setting supposed to turn out people who can think what they're doing, adapt to whatever situation they end up working in, and get the job done right, on budget and safely? (Oh, and teach 'em how to light in the process.) Why candy-coat things & make them bulletproof? After school they'll probably never get to work in such an idealized environment. (Unless, of course, they end up back in one at another school, teaching. But what can they teach then, having never dealt with the real world?)
 
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I can't agree with you, Van. Isn't the educational setting supposed to turn out people who can think what they're doing, adapt to whatever situation they end up working in, and get the job done right, on budget and safely? (Oh, and teach 'em how to light in the process.) Why candy-coat things & make them bulletproof? After school they'll probably never get to work in such an idealized environment. (Unless, of course, they end up back in one at another school, teaching. But what can they teach then, having never dealt with the real world?)
Lights are not forgiving of mistakes anymore. It used to be the worst consequence was a tripped breaker from patching wrong. These days, the wrong power will kill an instrument worth several thousand bucks, and even pros can make a mistake.
 
Students (and professionals) are being asked to deal with many more concepts, standards, voltages, etc on a daily basis than they ever were in the past.

Having well labelled and well separated electrics can be a huge key in gaining a fundamental understanding on why and how all of those things are different, and coexist in the same hang to have a successful show.

I love seeing these kinds of layouts because you can show how all of those things are different. When those students enter a production world, and all they have are six multi cables sitting on the deck that they have to terminate, with nothing but some scrawled sharpie on gaff tape to guide them, they're really going to appreciate the experience of all of those things being separated.
 
I can't agree with you, Van. Isn't the educational setting supposed to turn out people who can think what they're doing, adapt to whatever situation they end up working in, and get the job done right, on budget and safely? (Oh, and teach 'em how to light in the process.) Why candy-coat things & make them bulletproof? After school they'll probably never get to work in such an idealized environment. (Unless, of course, they end up back in one at another school, teaching. But what can they teach then, having never dealt with the real world?)
I see what your saying but by that same logic, removing blade covers from table saw sure would teach those kids about safety... I know I'm being hyperbolic but, yeah, I'm not risking blowing the warranty on a $2500 fixture because I expect a kid to be paying attention. They can learn , in the real world, when on their first job someone says, "No, they're all the same connector but non-dims have red tape, dims have blue tape, and Work lights are green. Didn't they teach you anything in High School?"
;)
 
In the world of locking 5-15’s, I encountered this version during an installation last year. While rather chonky I will admit it did lock very well.

 
Yesterday I was at an older IA venu. I was the only one on-site appairetly they trusted to convert their 4-pole 30A range plug 14-30P to our L21-30 hoist plug for an adaptor. (Not using ground.) As I was taking apart the supplied plug on a cable... all terminals were loose, really loose. Yes, when the plug was installed, the terminals were probably tight. With load conductors expand and settle in terminals becoming loose. This was a cable with plug I removed they were actively using. A rattle test should have long ago revealed loose terminals on such a plug. It was a good thing I gave them the adaptor for them and for me, because if sucicious of one side of a cable... one should be suspicious of the other side should I have had to re-install the plug. I made the IA crew aware of what I found instead.
Earlier last week I was traning on-job site some college educated (kids) on how to properly terminate L5-20 and Edison. Two different Sharpees for showing right on the plug a strip length verses wire length to match up to on the plug... for the guide inside the plug. Hand drafting since 1982 and wiring plugs since 94 ish in hundreds a year in knowing length and measurements. I can tell proper strip length of jacket and conductor within 1/16" from 10' away. I coach a bit short on your 1.1/4" etc.
That said, I even work with shop Department Managers who have been taught how to wire plugs many times, and at times supervise their department on doing so... They still cannot properly install a plug after at times 20+ years of experience. Some people just don't have in them to learn small things like installing a plug, yet know how to service the most modern moving light. Or at least clean it. Repair dpt. often has to change lamps.

On the fence about from school being able to wire a plug properly... I would hope at least for a base concept. I remember being tested in school about amperages of wire gauges that's also not taught. So many types of plug to wire and i certainly was not trained for L21-30 or CamLoc termination. On one hand I can teach anyone from McDonalds experience to college and MFA graduate in how to terminate stuff. College and MFA people are often more ready to learn but the hard part is me or one of my staff training them. Shop is busy even with an intent when not too busy to train.
That's for I work. Two of my six assistants have been with me over 15 years now so they know all I know in wiring. Our sodering techniques differ and we recommend teaching technique from many for own style in that.

But that's where I work. A hope given the skill level in teaching... We try hard to train and master all cable types for all sent to us. Other companies like one I worked for as free lance... don't have a knowledge base behind the crews. It is hoped in hiring, those trained often at low pay were trained professionals.
I remember the only time I disconnected a weather tight L21-30 plug from a service. It would not come loose... Nobody about me knew what I was supposed to do... like turn off the breakers in lights on, or stop gorilla twisting so as to remove.... Nope I twisted the plug beyond it's plastic seprations in the vapor locked plug melting down once tisted wires contacted another live wire.
What did I know... and nobody else including my supervisors knew better about a vapor tight suction on a plug seal.
It kind of sucked together in not just pulling apart, so I just kept twisting it to remove.
I went to a good school and was for the company I worked for trusted to do stuff as opposed to others on the crew.
So school verses venu or shop training, ability to train. Good question. I'm one of a few for training when I get the ability to do so. Life long and career for other's importance this is.
 
As a back to basics thing I'm going to summarize the wire gauge chart that was given to me when I worked at ElectroControls in 1972 building light boards. We had UL inspectors come in from time to time so these were set in stone...
22 AWG - 1 amp
20 AWG - 3 amp
18 AWG - 5 amp
16 AWG - 10 amp
14 AWG - 15 amp
12 AWG - 20 amp
10 AWG - 30 amp
etc. - calculate cross sectional area of copper conductors and bus bars at 1000 amps/sq. inch.
Assumptions for internal switchboard wiring: stranded copper wire only, no more than 6 wires (6 AWG or larger) bundled together, service loops at every connection, THHN or better insulation.
Feed from distribution transformer requires full size neutral as a dynamically varying stage load can sometimes be entirely on a single phase.
This is stuff that is in the NEC and hasn't changed much since the 1970's.
 
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