Upgrading Lighting System

[E2M2]

Hello All,

I will be much obliged if someone can give me an advice on what to upgrade. This is the list of the thing that my Congregation possesed:

x1

x6

x4

x1 (fog machine)

x2

The place where my church is located is on the local hotel and therefore, everytime we finished the service, the crew will need to disassemble the equipment for storage. The place where we held our service is a conference room which hold maximum of 100-200 person. The stage is around 6x3 meters.

I was wondering what should we upgrade. I would love some moving head LED lights and spotlights for drama and effects. But I want to consider a cheaper alternative and make maximum use of what we have.

Any advices?

 

[Harley Morgan]

For starters, what kind of service do you have? Do you have a worship band? What's the average age of your attendees?

 

[E2M2]

if what you mean by band is full set: guitar, electric guitar, bass, keyboard, drum, we do have them, most of the time. The average age is around 20ish.....

 

[wolfman005]

Are you looking for lighting for the performers, audience, or just some general fun stuff?

Do you have a budget?

How much help/time can you get to help setup and strike?

With everything going LED these days power probably isn't a huge issue but do you have ample power?

I don't think you will get far on that board so for me personally that would be the first thing to upgrade.
IMO the biggest bang for your buck would be LED battens. Put them on the floor, shine them at the walls and than you can change the atmosphere of the room pretty easily. Depending on which variety of batten you get, you can control segments of the LEDS to do chases across the walls. They could also be used as blinders, top light, side light, or possibly front light depending on the kind you get. If you can swing it them make rechargeable battery operated wireless DMX battens. Could be as simple as set down the batten and turn it on. No cables. This is all budget dependant and may or may not be the look your going for.

My advice on movers is get scanners to start with unless you have a lot of money for some movers. They require a good deal of maintence that may be hard for you to provide if you don't have access to where they are stored.

As you can give us more details on what you wanna achieve more people will chime in. Pictures are very helpful for this kind of thing.

-Aaron

 

[E2M2]

Hey wolfman, thanks for the reply...

First Q: All of the above. As in, I would like the lights to be flexible and can be used for anything. However, in related to this topic, maybe primarily focused on the performers.

2nd Q: Nope. As in US$0... but, as cheap and as good as possible as alternative allowed.

3rd Q: For big events, maybe 2-2.5 hrs and around 8-10 people is possible. For weekly service, maybe 30-45 minutes and around 2-4 people.

4rd Q: We usually use all of the above lights and we still have enough power for room lights and music equipment so I think power is not the problem.

Is this what you meant by battens? We have another for LED but since it took too much time, nowadays we just put it on the floor.

"If you can swing it them make rechargeable battery operated wireless DMX battens".... Can you explain please? I don't quite get it.

I would like to get my hands on this... What you all think?

for your questions on what I want to achieve, I think it is hard for me to say though. I would like to upload some videos on what our service looks like. But, the web doesn't allow me to.... In a nutshell, I want to create an atmosphere or environment at which the congregation can fully enjoyed themselves praising and worhsipping. Too abstract?

 

[wolfman005]

You won't get much done by saying "we wanna do S much as possible". I'm in the same boat. I've got stuff I wanna upgrade and it's always a challenege for me because I do a bit of theatre, a bit of band, and a bit of DJ lighting. While it is all lighting it is all very different and each scenario requires a different type of light to produce the desired result. For example, using a LED par can that has RGB Leds would be fine for a DJ, but to use that same LED par can for front light in a theatre would not work at all because of how the light is designed. Now keeping all of that in mind, I strongly suggest that you sit down with one or two other people and google something like "church lighting". See what kind of things other churches are doing that you could do and we can advise you on how to do it.

Now in regards to preformance lighting, I would pick up some par cans. Par 38s are cheap, don't pull as much power, and have a decent punch. Grab about 4 of these. I'm not sure what kind of stand systems you guys have right now, but I would put 2x par 38s on a stand in the front corners of the stage. Than add 2x your LED pars. The Pars will give you a good color for skin tones while the LED pars will give you some color and strobe ability.

Your not gonna get anywhere without a budget. Dreaming about what you can do when you have money is fine, but if that's what this is, I can throw out some more impressive ideas.

Setup time seems like it could be an issue as you get a larger setup. The biggest thing you can do to keep your setup time down, would be keeping the lights on the stands when not in use. For example that on stand you have has 6 pinspots on it. If you can wire all 6 lights to a powerstrip on the stand so all you have to do is lift the bar off of the stand, you just saved yourself 5-10 minutes by not having to fumble with thumbscrews, cable managment, and missing parts. Another good thing to do, is label what cable goes to what. This won't be as confusing to the volunteers and it will keep everyone from asking you "what does this do" every 5 minutes. Also try and pack your cable in the reverse order that you need it. Example take what you need last and put it in first so it will be at the bottom of the bin.

This will have to be a 2 part post as I've gotta run off to work now. I'll finish the rest tonight.

 

[Beans45601]

Not too much to add here, other than you need to find whoever tore the ground pin off that LED PAR and give them a stern talking to. Go through your building, find all your plugs with these missing and re-terminate them.

 

[Harley Morgan]

I think you should look at a laptop lighting solution like freestyler or other similar program. There are some free ones, and all you would need is a USB dongles that can be picked up for about $60. And generally easier for people to learn. Banks upon banks of looks and chases can get confusing.

 

[E2M2]

You won't get much done by saying "we wanna do S much as possible". I'm in the same boat. I've got stuff I wanna upgrade and it's always a challenege for me because I do a bit of theatre, a bit of band, and a bit of DJ lighting. While it is all lighting it is all very different and each scenario requires a different type of light to produce the desired result. For example, using a LED par can that has RGB Leds would be fine for a DJ, but to use that same LED par can for front light in a theatre would not work at all because of how the light is designed. Now keeping all of that in mind, I strongly suggest that you sit down with one or two other people and google something like "church lighting". See what kind of things other churches are doing that you could do and we can advise you on how to do it.

Now in regards to preformance lighting, I would pick up some par cans. Par 38s are cheap, don't pull as much power, and have a decent punch. Grab about 4 of these. I'm not sure what kind of stand systems you guys have right now, but I would put 2x par 38s on a stand in the front corners of the stage. Than add 2x your LED pars. The Pars will give you a good color for skin tones while the LED pars will give you some color and strobe ability.

Your not gonna get anywhere without a budget. Dreaming about what you can do when you have money is fine, but if that's what this is, I can throw out some more impressive ideas.

Setup time seems like it could be an issue as you get a larger setup. The biggest thing you can do to keep your setup time down, would be keeping the lights on the stands when not in use. For example that on stand you have has 6 pinspots on it. If you can wire all 6 lights to a powerstrip on the stand so all you have to do is lift the bar off of the stand, you just saved yourself 5-10 minutes by not having to fumble with thumbscrews, cable managment, and missing parts. Another good thing to do, is label what cable goes to what. This won't be as confusing to the volunteers and it will keep everyone from asking you "what does this do" every 5 minutes. Also try and pack your cable in the reverse order that you need it. Example take what you need last and put it in first so it will be at the bottom of the bin.

This will have to be a 2 part post as I've gotta run off to work now. I'll finish the rest tonight.

Thanks wolfman, I just checked out some pars in the web and it sound like a good equipment to buy a few. Will consult this with the PIC.

The stand system is just like what you saw， the stand, and then with 2 bars which I think it is not enough and I think buying one more stand is doable.

Our budget is maybe less than few hundred dollars. So yeah......

The thing about the set-up is that the storage room that we use is not ours. So we can't leave the lamp on the bar since then it will take too much space hence the disassemble every time the service ends. And thanks for the tip. Looking forward to your next post. lol

 

[E2M2]

Not too much to add here, other than you need to find whoever tore the ground pin off that LED PAR and give them a stern talking to. Go through your building, find all your plugs with these missing and re-terminate them.

Oh, the ground pin is not torn... it is a type C head, so it only uses two pins. lol......

 

[E2M2]

I think you should look at a laptop lighting solution like freestyler or other similar program. There are some free ones, and all you would need is a USB dongles that can be picked up for about $60. And generally easier for people to learn. Banks upon banks of looks and chases can get confusing.

I checked out some videos about those programs. I was thinking that it is kind a waste since our LED par is not a mover, it is static and plus, our chases are only 2... lol... which I will change this saturday for some changes..........

Who knows though.... thanks for the advice.

 

[wolfman005]

Sorry for a later response but here goes.

If the plug is meant to be that way, I would still get rid of it. Things like that shouldn't exist...

On the subject of a laptop and a dongle, I personally am a fan of this. Since you probably won't have a lot of time to be sitting at a board with all the lights plugged in, a visualizer program would be a must for me. Check out Freestyler. It's what I started on. Quirky but it's easy to build lighting profiles, it has a free 3d visualizer, and it works with a lot of dongles. Now as for a dongle I would recommend an Enttec USB Pro. Do not buy the Open dongle. It randomly cuts out. I personally own the Pro dongle and it's worth the extra money. As a bonus if you ever decide to upgrade to a mor. Professional software such as Chamsys or Martin's stuff (blanking on the name right now) you can use thr Enttec Pro with it.

Moving on to things I didn't cover last time...

I agree you should be good on power as long as you stick with LED. If you start to use conventionals such as Source 4s, depending on what you lamp them at you can only plug in 2 or 3 per circuit. In my opinion halogen/tungsten beats most LED front lights out there. Just looks better on the skin.

What you have is called a T-Bar. Bar goes across a tripod and makes a T. Place these carefully as people who aren't looking can and will walk right into the leg. Also make sure you evenly distribute the weight as these are not the strongest/stable things in the world. I would expect to see a T-Bar on the front two corners of the stage wit the aforementioned 2 halogen pars and 2 LED pars.

Those are not battens. Those are lights on a bar...I suppose they could be considered par bars, but that would be a stretch and very confusing to those who know what an actual par bar is. A batten is basically a strip light. Kinda like a florescent tube but it does not provide 360 coverage. This would be a LED Batten/Strip. Really are interchangeable more or less but I use batten because in google searches it tends to rule out cheaper lights geared for DJs. They make battens with built in batterys and wireless receivers. So all you have to do is set the batten down and turn it on. No running power and DMX to every light and tying to make it look pretty. You just have to be sure you charge the batterys.

As for keeping the lights on the stand, I shoukd have worded that better. Keep the lights on the horizontal part of the stand. Than you can lift that bar off the tripod and when collasped the tipod and the bar with the lights can sit nice and neat on the floor.

After I fire up my computer later today I'll draw you a picture of how I would use your existing gear, and how/what I would add to make it a bit better. Sorry for all the spelling mistakes I've been doing this on my new phone and I don't have the keyboard worked out yet.

 

[LightingGuy89]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...g&matchtype=&gclid=CLTpl8imqr8CFQiUfgodBFUAJw

This is a good example of the Wireless, Battery Powered ( rated for 6 hours) batten light that might be in your price-range, though to Wolfman's point, it is a consumer/DJ product and wouldn't be found on too many professional rigs these days.

I am seconding the idea of an Entec Pro Dongle and the Martin M-PC software. The software is free and allows one DMX universe of output via the Entec Pro dongle. This software is designed to be ran on a computer system, very intuitive (though a good read-through of the manual is always recommended) and will accomplish everything you are looking for.

 

[RonHebbard]

Not too much to add here, other than you need to find whoever tore the ground pin off that LED PAR and give them a stern talking to. Go through your building, find all your plugs with these missing and re-terminate them.

Hello Ms. / Mr. Beans;

A couple of assumptions on my part to go along with the assumptions of others.
As to the plug; I suspect we're looking at a European plug with two, identical, round pins and the ground could be in two locations on the perimeter of the shell, one in line with where the molded cable enters and the other directly across making both difficult to discern in the photo. Some European connectors make no distinction between hot and neutral, often with neither side being grounded at the source. I'll stop here avoiding a 'worm can' I'd prefer not to open.

Second assumption;
We may be in 230 Volt land here where twice as many Source Fours, for example, may be doable on a given cable gauge / Amperage rating.
I may easily be leaping to incorrect assumptions here as I'm basing my thoughts on how I think I'm seeing the plug.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[E2M2]

Sorry for a later response but here goes.

If the plug is meant to be that way, I would still get rid of it. Things like that shouldn't exist...

On the subject of a laptop and a dongle, I personally am a fan of this. Since you probably won't have a lot of time to be sitting at a board with all the lights plugged in, a visualizer program would be a must for me. Check out Freestyler. It's what I started on. Quirky but it's easy to build lighting profiles, it has a free 3d visualizer, and it works with a lot of dongles. Now as for a dongle I would recommend an Enttec USB Pro. Do not buy the Open dongle. It randomly cuts out. I personally own the Pro dongle and it's worth the extra money. As a bonus if you ever decide to upgrade to a mor. Professional software such as Chamsys or Martin's stuff (blanking on the name right now) you can use thr Enttec Pro with it.

Moving on to things I didn't cover last time...

I agree you should be good on power as long as you stick with LED. If you start to use conventionals such as Source 4s, depending on what you lamp them at you can only plug in 2 or 3 per circuit. In my opinion halogen/tungsten beats most LED front lights out there. Just looks better on the skin.

What you have is called a T-Bar. Bar goes across a tripod and makes a T. Place these carefully as people who aren't looking can and will walk right into the leg. Also make sure you evenly distribute the weight as these are not the strongest/stable things in the world. I would expect to see a T-Bar on the front two corners of the stage wit the aforementioned 2 halogen pars and 2 LED pars.

Those are not battens. Those are lights on a bar...I suppose they could be considered par bars, but that would be a stretch and very confusing to those who know what an actual par bar is. A batten is basically a strip light. Kinda like a florescent tube but it does not provide 360 coverage. This would be a LED Batten/Strip. Really are interchangeable more or less but I use batten because in google searches it tends to rule out cheaper lights geared for DJs. They make battens with built in batterys and wireless receivers. So all you have to do is set the batten down and turn it on. No running power and DMX to every light and tying to make it look pretty. You just have to be sure you charge the batterys.

As for keeping the lights on the stand, I shoukd have worded that better. Keep the lights on the horizontal part of the stand. Than you can lift that bar off the tripod and when collasped the tipod and the bar with the lights can sit nice and neat on the floor.

After I fire up my computer later today I'll draw you a picture of how I would use your existing gear, and how/what I would add to make it a bit better. Sorry for all the spelling mistakes I've been doing this on my new phone and I don't have the keyboard worked out yet.

After your post, I decided to learn more about the console... I think I can get it to work to my expectation. But just in case, I have downloaded the software and bought the dongles (which is I think chinese made as I do not have the means to bought it from overseas).. will work on this as soon as I have the time..

And about source 4S, we have several other spotlight so Think we will pass on this first. And about the LED strips, can it be controlled with the dmx console? because it will be quite useless if the color cannot be changed.... (I tried to find it on local online store but since I think the LED battens are a technical name, I can't find any)

 

[E2M2]

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...g&matchtype=&gclid=CLTpl8imqr8CFQiUfgodBFUAJw

This is a good example of the Wireless, Battery Powered ( rated for 6 hours) batten light that might be in your price-range, though to Wolfman's point, it is a consumer/DJ product and wouldn't be found on too many professional rigs these days.

I am seconding the idea of an Entec Pro Dongle and the Martin M-PC software. The software is free and allows one DMX universe of output via the Entec Pro dongle. This software is designed to be ran on a computer system, very intuitive (though a good read-through of the manual is always recommended) and will accomplish everything you are looking for.

It is cool... but I think it is out of my budget... lolll.................... thanks anyway...

 

[wolfman005]

Yes the battens can be DMX contolled. To what extent varies on the batten. For example, a Chauvet Mini COLORStrip only offers RGB and mode control. So the bar will be one color. However the ADJ Mega Pixel LED will allow you to control separate segments of the bar.

 

[E2M2]

Hello people!! Sorry for the late reply... Been busy with research and holiday.

I have another question, what do you call a lamp that flashes white and the intensity can be controlled? I know it is not strobe light

I don't know how to describe it but it is like the lamp used in "Faint" MV by Linkin Park.

Thanks

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Chris15]

So they look exactly like european "Schuko" Plugs.
They are a grounded plug, but not with a third pin in the way you're used to in the US. Wikipedia them if you want to know more.

And yeah, Beijing is 230V land...

 

[JohnD]

The light effect you are describing might be blinders aka audience blinders. One possible history of blinders is The Who using 5000 watt fresnels upstage facing the audience. The use of series wired low voltage ACL lamps (air craft landing) became somewhat of a standard. There are now many LED options including matrix arrays of white, warm white and color leds.