What should we upgrade?
- Thread starterWalt Michael
- Start date
Walt Michael
Member
So, here's what it has come down to. We have a number of outdated lights, and after looking at all the things you wonderful fellows posted here, I think I've decided not to go with LED fixtures for a general stage wash! Here's what I found:
General Wash:
LED Wash: approx. $10,000 for fixtures + more for a new board (Still won't suit purpose)
Source 4 PAR or Source 4 PARNel wash: $1500 for 6 fixtures to replace a few old ones and take up some of the unused channels
Altman 360Q Ellipsoidal: $1500 for 6 fixtures, also to replace a few old ones and take up some unused channels
CYC Fixture:
Altman FC-1 CYC: $350/fixture, will replace current Scoop fixtures with 3 sets of 3 (RGB) across the back of stage
Altman EC-1 CYC: $165/fixture, will do the same thing as the FC-1
Chauvet Ovation C-640FC: $1600/fiixture, will use 3 across the back wall
At this point, I am leaning towards not doing the LED wash because it is very expensive and wont serve our purposes. However, what is your opinion on either the second or third option there? The CYC could definitely be done if we don't do the LED wash! I looked at both the FC-1 and EC-1. Which would you suggest? Has anyone worked with either fixture before?
Here's a link to the page with all those fixtures on it (minus the LED wash ones): http://www.jfrost.com/products/category/lx-fixtures
Here's a link to the Chauvet Ovation C-640FC:
http://www.chauvetlighting.com/ovation-c-640fc.html
General Wash:
LED Wash: approx. $10,000 for fixtures + more for a new board (Still won't suit purpose)
Source 4 PAR or Source 4 PARNel wash: $1500 for 6 fixtures to replace a few old ones and take up some of the unused channels
Altman 360Q Ellipsoidal: $1500 for 6 fixtures, also to replace a few old ones and take up some unused channels
CYC Fixture:
Altman FC-1 CYC: $350/fixture, will replace current Scoop fixtures with 3 sets of 3 (RGB) across the back of stage
Altman EC-1 CYC: $165/fixture, will do the same thing as the FC-1
Chauvet Ovation C-640FC: $1600/fiixture, will use 3 across the back wall
At this point, I am leaning towards not doing the LED wash because it is very expensive and wont serve our purposes. However, what is your opinion on either the second or third option there? The CYC could definitely be done if we don't do the LED wash! I looked at both the FC-1 and EC-1. Which would you suggest? Has anyone worked with either fixture before?
Here's a link to the page with all those fixtures on it (minus the LED wash ones): http://www.jfrost.com/products/category/lx-fixtures
Here's a link to the Chauvet Ovation C-640FC:
http://www.chauvetlighting.com/ovation-c-640fc.html
Last edited:
I don't see why not. It's easy to use and learn. The only negative is that students aren't learning something they are going to run into in the future in the pro world. But it's a great little console. In my opinion a Cognito would be an excellent option for this particular situation. Another good choice could possibly be a Strand Basic Palette... it runs a little under $4k I believe or you could even move into an ETC Element (aren't they in the $5k range?). The new consoel is the key to letting you upgrade other things later.
Either one would leave you a nice chunk of change left over to replace your 2k's with.
How many 2k's do you have, what do you use them for. How far is the throw?
How much power do you have around the theater which is NOT on a dimmer? If you are going to include some LED's they can't be plugged into a dimmer.
I would avoid the 360 Q's. They are ancient workhorses of the industry but there are so many reasons a Source 4 is better and they don't cost THAT much more.
My guess is you would need more like 4 or 5 of those Chauvet units to light your cyc bright enough to be seen over the incandescent light from the rest of the space. So at this point an incandescent solution is probably best for your cyc needs. Although you might do okay with some off brand LED strips. There are some decent products out there from small no-name brands. Local dealers tend to have their own house brand. The key is getting one from a dealer you trust to stand behind them. I put a set of 8 "Bulldog K9" LED PARS in the band room at the school I work at some times. He pad about $500 each. The color is fantastic and they have a LOT of punch. It's a small little brand, but he purchased them from the biggest dealer in town. If something goes wrong, that dealer will take care of things. Talk to your local shops about what sort of Chinese LED's they cary and have them bring them in for a demo. Demo's are CRUCIAL!
My guess is you would need more like 4 or 5 of those Chauvet units to light your cyc bright enough to be seen over the incandescent light from the rest of the space. So at this point an incandescent solution is probably best for your cyc needs. Although you might do okay with some off brand LED strips. There are some decent products out there from small no-name brands. Local dealers tend to have their own house brand. The key is getting one from a dealer you trust to stand behind them. I put a set of 8 "Bulldog K9" LED PARS in the band room at the school I work at some times. He pad about $500 each. The color is fantastic and they have a LOT of punch. It's a small little brand, but he purchased them from the biggest dealer in town. If something goes wrong, that dealer will take care of things. Talk to your local shops about what sort of Chinese LED's they cary and have them bring them in for a demo. Demo's are CRUCIAL!
techieman33
Well-Known Member
If your just going to have a few LED's your don't have to upgrade your light board. Your current board may not be ideal for running them, but I don't think a new one is mandatory. If your current board is giving your problems then by all means upgrade it, but I don't think I would if it was in good shape. Your dollars will go a lot further with new fixtures than a new console.
I agree. Save your money and make the board part of your next upgrade.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Just on the sky drop, the general rule of thumb is that units are spaced apart about the same distance they are from the drop. A traditional four cell far cyc unit worked well from about 5' from drop so that meant 5' on center or a dozen for a typical 60' (my experience) drop. We found 30-36" spacing on the classic Selador works well when only 20-24" from drop. The PL cyc seems to work at 5' and 5' on center, though we usually specify enough for 4' centers. Haven't tried the new S4 cyc but will - guessing about like the PL cyc as far as spacing.
Somehow 3 (or 4 or 5) units sounds anemic, unless of course you drop is only 15-20' wide.
Somehow 3 (or 4 or 5) units sounds anemic, unless of course you drop is only 15-20' wide.
Walt Michael
Member
So, what I'm hearing is that getting incandescent CYC fixtures and either the PAR or PARNel fixtures for a general stage wash and to replace the 2k's is the best bet? We have three 2k fixtures above stage and two mounted in our catwalk. So replacing 5 in total with about 10 PARs. We also plan on getting a few S4 ellipsoidals for more specific lighting applications like a podium light. Did anyone look at that website posted in my previous message? Any suggestions whether to get PARNel or PAR for the wash? What about FC-1 vs EC-1 for the CYC?
FatherMurphy
Active Member
Strand recommends the PL Cycs at 4' out, 4' centers, or at least my rep suggests that. More than 22' drop height, and a groundrow becomes needed.
For the Altman FC-1 and EC-1 cycs, the yokes are a separate cost, and there's a hardware kit that goes with them, make sure those are being included in the pricing. I usually recommend the single cell yokes, it's a little more initial cost and a tad more pipe space, but it removes all limitations to how you use them. Optically they're the same lamp and reflector, but the EC doesn't have the internal tilt function that the FC has. Hanging in the air, this is irrelevant, but if used as a groundrow, it can be important.
Any instrument needs to be considered in terms of complete price, many are priced without lamp, c-clamp, or electrical connector, so you need to remember to either have that included in the price, or keep some budget earmarked for supplying those yourself. Some manufacturers will give you free freight if you order X number of instruments or more as a single order.
Regarding off-brand and off-shore LEDs, keep in mind that designs and availability change monthly in that end of the market. Anything you buy today, may not be able to be matched or repaired tomorrow. I've seen 'identical' fixtures (same make, model, and seller, bought on the same PO) with differing cards inside, complete with differing pinouts on the ribbon cables. Name brands may cost more, but you at least have a fighting chance at getting repair parts, or of getting more fixtures just like the first batch, when you need them in the future.
For the Altman FC-1 and EC-1 cycs, the yokes are a separate cost, and there's a hardware kit that goes with them, make sure those are being included in the pricing. I usually recommend the single cell yokes, it's a little more initial cost and a tad more pipe space, but it removes all limitations to how you use them. Optically they're the same lamp and reflector, but the EC doesn't have the internal tilt function that the FC has. Hanging in the air, this is irrelevant, but if used as a groundrow, it can be important.
Any instrument needs to be considered in terms of complete price, many are priced without lamp, c-clamp, or electrical connector, so you need to remember to either have that included in the price, or keep some budget earmarked for supplying those yourself. Some manufacturers will give you free freight if you order X number of instruments or more as a single order.
Regarding off-brand and off-shore LEDs, keep in mind that designs and availability change monthly in that end of the market. Anything you buy today, may not be able to be matched or repaired tomorrow. I've seen 'identical' fixtures (same make, model, and seller, bought on the same PO) with differing cards inside, complete with differing pinouts on the ribbon cables. Name brands may cost more, but you at least have a fighting chance at getting repair parts, or of getting more fixtures just like the first batch, when you need them in the future.
I disagree. The theater is trapped until a new console is in control. When you have the large pot of money, spend it to get an appropriate new console and you can slowly add in more fixtures a few at a time as budget allows. If you spend this large pot of money completely on fixtures, you still have the problem of needing a new console preventing you from future expansion. Balance the purchase spending some on a console and some on fixtures.
I agree, but this is why I suggested dealing with a known local dealer who is going to back you up and help you.
Ford
Sr Product Manager, Chauvet Professional
I know I'm deeply biased, and late to the conversation, but take a second look at the Chauvet Ovation C640 for your cyc lights. They are fantastically bright, and I held them back for a full year of further development to get the colors, and virtual color wheel correct... Along with several tweaks to both software and hardware.
Please stop by and see me at LDI, or have a friend do so, and I will take you through the fixture, and the changes we made to make them compete against farcycs.
Please stop by and see me at LDI, or have a friend do so, and I will take you through the fixture, and the changes we made to make them compete against farcycs.
