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What to rent?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Synchronize, Oct 27, 2008.

  1. Synchronize

    Synchronize Active Member

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    I'm really stuck. Being somewhat new to the world of stage lighting I have not the experiance required to find a solution to my problem. My highschool is putting on our Fall production, Fools, in two weeks. The set an amazing rotating house on a 12' x 16' platform with 12' high walls. It looks great but I'm running into some issues lighting it. Let me give you a little background on what we have. Its called an Auditeria; yes Auditorium/Cafeteria with pretty much a church set-up for both lights and sound. My ellipsoidals (Altman 360Q) are on a rack right above a floating celling about 35' away from the stage. The way that the celling is built does not let the lights do their job. The house is not far from the edge of the stage but I am still left with a 3' shadow on the top. Now I have fresnels (Altman 65Q) on a second rack above the stage but that is too far back to use on the front of the house. Its quite imparative that I get light on the top of that house.

    I would like to rent a few lights for a couple weeks but I dont know what sort of fixture to get. The would have to be floor mounted to get light up that high. I talked to a gentalman that owns a theatre equipment rental store and he recommended Par 56 cans with a 300 watt lamp. I've never used any par cans before so I don't know what kind of power they have or the distance that they can carry. What fixture would you recommend for the job?

    Another question: These will be mounted to the floor; how can I get the cable up to the distrbution box on the rack? I was thinking putting stage pin connectors on a heavier gauge extension cord and running it up the wall.

    And a quite unrelated question: Is there anyway to convert Lee gel numbers to Roscolux numbers?

    Thanks much in advance,

    Adam Curtis
     
  2. DaveySimps

    DaveySimps CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    Hi Adam. Below is a link to a Rosco to Lee conversion chart. My condolences for having to produce a show in a cafetorium.

    PAR 56's with WFL lamps should do the trick. Additional 6" fresnels would also work. 300 watts might be a little low on the output side, especially once gel is in place. If you have the dimmer capacity, I would look into 500W lamps. I think the trouble you might have is getting the right lighting angle. If I am understanding your situation correctly: you might want to consider investing in a couple of boom bases and some 1 1/2" schedule 40 threaded pipe to create your floor mounted lighting system. I would only use 2P&G cables to run your circuits, regular extesion cords are to thin of guage to really be safe. Don't forget to tie a strain relief of some form in the cables to take the weight off of them. Aslo, do not forget to tie the booms off with a safety rope so they do not fall over should they get hit.

    Rosco Canada : Technotes : Filters : Lee to Rosco
    ~Dave
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2008
  3. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    So you are just looking to wash the top parts of the house?

    Personally I would go with a Source Four Par in this instance.
     
  4. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Is there action that happens up where you say it is in "shadow"? I ask because traditionally when lighting we try not to light the set. Lighting high up on walls draws the focus away from the action, so if there is no action up there, you shouldn't feel like you have to light it. If there is action up there, then you don't want to light it with uplight, it will cast funky shadows on your actors and won't look to pretty. If you have to light action up there you will want to get your lights up high enough so that at the very least they are on a flat angle with the action.

    As it is against the CB TOS to discuss rigging, I would suggest getting in touch with a qualified person to help you set up any booms.

    2P&G is a type of connector, not a cable.
     
  5. cdub260

    cdub260 CBMod CB Mods

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    As long as you're renting fixtures, you should also check with your supplier about the possibility of renting cables. Unless you are qualified to wire your own cables or have access to someone qualified who can supervise your wiring, you should not attempt to do so. If you're not sure if you're qualified, assume that you're not.
     
  6. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    My local rental house would charge you less than $200 for 8 S4 Pars, power cable and two nice lighting trees for a week rental. From what I've heard around here in the past their prices tend to be a little high compared to other parts of the country.

    Yes you need good quality real stage cables for this. My local rental place gives you one 25 foot cable for free for every instrument you rent (beyond that it's only about $2 per week). With the cost of raw cable at about $1 per foot plus about $5 for EACH connector, the cost of Making your own extension cables gets very expensive fast (about $30-$35 for one 25 foot cable). Do you need to have good quality cables around? Yes but it's not a project to take on at the last minute. Rent for now. DO NOT USE ORANGE EXTENSION CORDS FROM THE HARDWARE STORE. Extension cables, MUST be made of 12 Gauge SOOW cable to be considered safe for theater use. Making them is something you can easily do yourself with a little bit of training and adult supervision, but the raw materials are going to be very expensive, especially at the last minute. So you should probably rent them and buy some materials next time there's a little money in the budget to spend.

    As for what specific instrument to rent, it depends on how far you want these lights to be from the stage. If you are talking about mounting them out 30+ feet from the stage where your other lights are, you are pushing the limits of a PAR and I would suggests you think about 19 or 26 degree S4 ellipsoidals. For the PAR itself, I recommend you don't rent old fashioned PARS. My local place charges $2 more per week for the S4's and it's a much better instrument to work with (smaller, whiter, brighter, more efficient with electricity).

    At this point your next step is deciding exactly where they will be installed and how far the throw to the stage is... then we can help you make the right instrument choice decision.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  7. DaveySimps

    DaveySimps CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    You are absolutely correct, sorry for the typo / error. I would also agree with the use of Source IV pars. They are a great instrument, and if you can get them for only a little more than the cost of renting the pars, it is well worth the extra $$$.

    ~Dave
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2008
  8. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    If they're par 56, chances are they'll be edison. They should have cable available as well. Must make sure you know what your dimmer accepts.

    But if you're renting 8 par 56 and dimmers, you might look into buying instead. I'll bet Bill could sell to you at close to the rental (at least for the par cans). I realize that schools need to follow purchasing procedures, but if it were just for 8 pars, that's probably be under $300 and you could probably get that done through petty cash. Especially when you factor in that the nearest places to Richmond I know of are Gand (which I don't even think rents lighting) or maybe ProMix in Mt. Prospect. That's about an hour each way, so figure 4 hours of driving to pick up and return. Unless you're going to Wisconsin.

    Who are you renting from?
     
  9. Synchronize

    Synchronize Active Member

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    Thank to all for your answers. I'm going to look into getting a couple trees and 6-8 fixtures. I'm going to give them a call and see how much it would cost for the rental. The quote I got for 4 Par 56 cans was $35 dollars for two weeks, which includes meeting halfway between our loacation to take and return them. I'm currently looking at Rimshot Stage Ligthing and Sound in Belvidere, IL. I have edison to stage pin adaptors even if they were edison. It would just be a matter of making up extentions (which I do consider myself capable of doing using 12 gauge wire). I still need to check to see if the rental store has any though.
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    on the lighting, I would go smaller Fresnels at times placed above and attached to the set often or use booms in the house. The PAR 56 could but probably won't sufficiently work without experience in how or where to put them.

    on the gel conversion... best I could compile for a conversion chart based off a bunch of sources.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. Synchronize

    Synchronize Active Member

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    I just got off the phone with the gentalman again. He also has PAR 64s for $10/can. He will also put in WFL, MFL, or NFL, which ever we request. So my question is what would be better to light the top of the set (which is about 10-20 feet away)? PAR 64s or PAR 56s? (He doesnt have Source 4s)
     
  12. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    PAR 64's are going to have more kick... always go with more power if possible. The big question remains exactly where are you going to put them. You need to calculate exactly how far they are going to be shooting so you know which type of lamp to use. Also again you want to rent cable or this cheap rental will cost you hundreds to build your own cables.
     
  13. Hughesie

    Hughesie Well-Known Member

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    I have a common dislike for par cans as for years we couldn't focus them. My advice would be to get some barn doors for them included in the hire as they are a fantastic edition if you need to tighten up the wash of a WFL.
     
  14. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    Also with par cans you can reach in and rotate the lamp. The direction the ceramic is going is the beam angle of the lamp. If you want a more horizontal beam rotate the ceramic so it is horizontal with the floor. If you want it vertical rotate it vertical. Once you spin the lamp some you will get the idea real quick. Par's do not produce a completely round ball of light, but an oval shaped pool.
     

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