Wondering about Altman

[gafftapegreenia]

What can I say, I'm also a history buff. I know quite a bit about lighthouses as well, including those glorious Fresnel lenses. I also love old theatres and equipment. There's an old theatre near me that was built in the 20's and still has all its boxfloods and original scoop style striplights. They replaced the original resistance dimmers with a Strand setup about 10 years ago. Not sure if they have any old P/C's, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's been over a year since I've been in there, I should contact them and see if I can get a tour. I have also heard from a friend of mine who is a professional rigger that a few of the oldest venues in Detroit have basements full of old equipment...now to figure out a way to check them out.

 

[Les]

I believe www.stagelights.com sells PC Spots. They don't specify who makes them though. The price of one varies from $100 - $160 and the quality may be questionable, but I'd be interested to try one out! $100.00 for a decent unit would not be bad...

 

[SteveB]

Re: Wondering about PC Spots

I remember years ago when the Royal Ballet of Netherlands hit our space, they toured with a good size electrics rig, overheads, booms, dimmers, console, etc...

One of the interesting things was that all the ADB boom ellipsoidals had shutters removed. The slot was readily accessible, and the RBN electrician wore an apron with a pocket full of shutters, pulling one out and installing when he needed a cut. Saved on the shutters getting banged around in the load-in/out.

The Backlights were an ADB 8" 'ish, PC zoom fixture. Very punchy, nice coverage, especially as they had less flare then a fresnel or Par.

I've often thought that PC's would be nice to use, then started using my S4 25-50 Zooms in much the same manner. The 750 watt HPL lamp is easily as bright as a 1.5kw ADB at 220volts and while the ETC generally doesn't have quite as soft an edge, a piece of R132 takes care of that. Shutters, gobo's, iris's too boot !. Which is pretty much why nobody uses a PC spot.

Steve B.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

ETC wins again.

 

[soundlight]

ETC wins again.

Nothing new!

 

[ship]

In further linking similar topics. Note Van's concept of a C-Wrench in the proper place and you also can do a rainbow effect from a un-modified S-4.

ETC wins again... consider it a paint brush in one not being better, just different. You need to paint a house and all you have is a fan brush, it gets done, just different than if you had to paint with say a stipple brush. Good or bad all depends upon how well you can put to use the fan brush over another type.

 

[gafftaper]

Great point Ship, we got into this a while back with another thread. In the end, there are often a half dozen instruments that could be used for the same design situation in a pinch. Some require more work, a little diffusion gel help, or some creative black foil work... but often there are several solutions that could be used.

I was talking with a Broadway lighting designer about Strand SL vs. Source 4 a while back. He said you just can't call one better than the other, both have strengths and weaknesses. He uses both regularly depending on the very specific details of the situation.

Yes in general popularity ETC is "winning" the battle right now but that isn't necessarily due to an inferior product from Altman or Strand. Most of us around here would have a very hard time identifying the Shakespeare, SL, and S4 in a side by side blind shootout... I doubt I could get it right.

Finally, remember that all it takes is one innovative idea from a competitor and you are in the dust (just ask Altman). It also only takes one innovative idea from your own R&D department and you can sit back and coast for 15 years (Ask ETC).

Best ellipsoidal I've seen? A Selecon Pacific. They manage heat better, they have better optics (you'll never need a donut), they burn gel and gobos at a dramatically slower rate, they have a much flatter field, they take seconds to do a perfect bench focus while still hanging in the air, full 360 barrel rotation, everything about them is smarter than a S4. Will I be buying them for my new theater? No. They cost too much and I don't want to take the risk of not being able to get parts in 10 years. Strands SL's rotate the barrel 360 and I hear have better optics than S4's. Will I be buying them for my new theater, PROBABLY not because they have a reputation of bad support in the long run (there's a reason people say "Don't get Stranded"). Why will I probably buy S4 even though I believe it's inferior? Because it's safer to live with the herd. That's not exactly winning.

By the way gafftapergreenia, not trying to start a fight here. It's just a topic I've been thinking a lot about lately as I try to organize the inventory for my future theater.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

A few thoughts..

By no means do I think someone is 'picking a fight', there are obviously alot of factors that go into choosing one's instruments. My comment about ETC 'winning' was rather tongue-in-cheek anyway. They're on top today, but tomorrow....who knows. No hard feelings.

The Selecon fixtures intrigue me. So different than any conventional fixture I've yet had the chance to use...but I'm sure that will change as I move into the college world of theatre.

Of course, there are always six different ways to solve a problem, and with lighting its probably more like 2 dozen ways. Whatever works best for a designer fitting their tastes, budgets, availability, etc is what they use. If art could be made 60 years ago with roundel striplights, then surely with the vast array of options available today anything is possible.

Personally, I just like having options and choices when it comes to instruments, color, hanging positions, dimmers, the list goes on. The world might be ETC -everything right now, and I can't blame them for doing things right. On the other hand, they haven't yet been able to effectively challenge the Fresnel. As for the P/C, it's been around this long, so it can't be totally obsolete, can it?

 

[gafftaper]

I've talked about this before in other posts but here are some of the reasons you need to check out Selecon. The coolest thing about the Selecon ellipsoidals is how they deal with heat. The instrument is "L" shaped with the lamp mounted pointing straight up. The reflector is aimed at a dichroic mirror which is mounted at a 45 degree angle. Dichroic is tuned to only reflect visible light forward into the lens tube while allowing the infrared (and there for most of the heat) to pass directly out the top into a big heat sink. The barrel and lens are not cold but you can easily safely work with the instrument without danger of burning yourself (as long as you stay away from the heat sink). This cooler operating temperature means gel lasts dramatically longer and gobos last a little longer.

To "bench focus" the lamp all you do is flip the heat sink open and turn the light on to 30% or so. No look through the dichroic reflector and you can easily see if the lamp is off center. A couple of twists on the back and you are done.

So many other cool things about the Selecon. How about degree markings on the yoke so you can quickly preset all your instruments to the same pan and tilt. Safety interlocks so you can't turn it on when the lamp access is open. Interchangeable lens tubes are color coded. Super high quality optics (no need for an expensive EDLT upgrade). Some of their instruments have built in retractable safety cables. Oh and their gel frames... heavy plastic, they are hinged with little gripping teeth to hold the gel tight. Just snap it open, drop in the gel, snap shut and it's tight.

Some Very smart people are designing these things and they've talked to a lot of real lighting grunts to design them in a way that makes life easy. http://www.seleconlight.com

 

[gafftapegreenia]

All reasons why I want to get my hands on some Selecon products.