Ancient Switch

[gafftaper]

The story goes that this old theater in the area used to have a wall of these switches. That was their "light board". Seems insanely dangerous... and a little fishy. Approximate size of the switch base is 10"x20". What can you tell me about this old beast? Is it likely that they actually used a wall of these mid show to control lights on and off? Looks to me more like some sort of scary main disconnect. Is that single bar loaded in there meant to be some sort of "fuse"?

 

[JD]

Believe it! Maybe not a wall of 3 pole units like that, but open switches were very common in the early days of theater. (one of the reason the death rate was so high!) Love the open selector switches on this model: (Although I don't think it is DMX compatible.)

 

[Scarrgo]

That looks like a disconnect to me. Back in the day when on tour, I have seen rooms in some of the older theaters that have walls of these disconnects. They wont let anyone in there for fear of them killing themselves.

I think the bar in the center would be for the Neutral, I am not 100% on that.

Wouldn't want to sneeze when reaching for the handle, and must have been fun if it was under load....ahhh, the good old days

Sean...

 

[Footer]

Ancient! Ha! We still have those switches in my building and they are still sending power down the line.

This panel has 208v going through it. It does not feed anything in my space but it is the main distribution panel for the "state side" of the building I am in.

 

[shiben]

So do you have a fiberglass pole or something like linemen use to disconnect larger power switches? I wouldnt want to get anywhere near that thing...

 

[gafftaper]

So looking at Footer's close up shot it looks like the single bar in my switch doesn't belong there. Looks like there should be some sort of giant fuse in it's place. Right?

So do you have a fiberglass pole or something like linemen use to disconnect larger power switches? I wouldn't want to get anywhere near that thing...

Yeah that would make me nervous just opening the outer doors for the picture.

 

[Footer]

So do you have a fiberglass pole or something like linemen use to disconnect larger power switches? I wouldnt want to get anywhere near that thing...

If you look at it, it goes SWITCH....FUSE....LOAD. Therefore, you never replace a fuse under load.

Though I have never seen it, I am sure our electrician dawns full "live work" PPE if he has to go into any of those things. Apparently the main distribution vault for the entire park is in a room that is lined wall to wall with copper and those switches. At some point the electrician for the park is going to take me in there. Pictures to come... hopefully.

 

[kicknargel]

So looking at Footer's close up shot it looks like the single bar in my switch doesn't belong there. Looks like there should be some sort of giant fuse in it's place. Right?

Yeah, I'd guess someone couldn't find the right fuse so they just bypassed it. Brilliant.

 

[Footer]

Yeah, I'd guess someone couldn't find the right fuse so they just bypassed it. Brilliant.

It could have also been used for ground. Doubtful, but possible.

 

[banjokeith]

My theater had a full board of those - monster 3-pole for the main feed to stage and house, and then 30 or so more for individual circuits. It was installed in 1904 and was amazingly used up into the 1980s when the theater began its transformation back from a movie theater into a theater again.

Luckily, the people who ran the theater at the time had the sense to save the whole setup and move it (unpowered) to the lobby as a really cool display item. I will try to get a photo up here some time.

 

[shiben]

Though I have never seen it, I am sure our electrician dawns full "live work" PPE if he has to go into any of those things. Apparently the main distribution vault for the entire park is in a room that is lined wall to wall with copper and those switches. At some point the electrician for the park is going to take me in there. Pictures to come... hopefully.

This reminds me of a really cool show I saw about guys who repair high-tension power lines out in the middle of nowhere. They get in a helicopter and climb onto the lines, it was nutty. I dont really understand the copper on the walls, but I dont really understand distribution of that nature.

 

[Footer]

This reminds me of a really cool show I saw about guys who repair high-tension power lines out in the middle of nowhere. They get in a helicopter and climb onto the lines, it was nutty. I dont really understand the copper on the walls, but I dont really understand distribution of that nature.

Though its been on several shows, I personally like World's Toughest Fixes on National Geographic. The hose is a rigger/theatre person who is actually pretty active on the stagecraft mailing list.

 

[Dionysus]

mmm old knife switches! Lotsa fun!

Just don't touch any part of it that is metallic and you are safe *dons arc-flash suit* Go ahead, throw the switch with a VERY heavy motor load... I dare ya

Yes these switches were very common. I doubt that the middle with the bar joining was a 'hot', actually from looking at it I pretty much knot it is not.

With three contacts, I'd doubt the single one in the center would be 'hot'. Possibly ground, more likely identified or neutral... then again it could be hot.
It is marked 200a 250v, which says to me, the two outside contacts would be each a phase, and the middle would be neutral.

Like I said, don't touch anything metal, be swift in action, and don't use it for any huge motor loads or something to that effect and all is fairly fine.
There are still switches similar to this, and other dated scary things in use still today around the world (more outside north america, where most stuff has been updated and less 'grandfathering' is allowed to stand).

That could be fun!!!

Anyways if you throw it swiftly and properly, it will hardly arc or sizzle (depending on load). If you are tentative, it will arc. and if you are REALLY silly you could make it arc big-time! BOOM! hehehe....
Still I'd don my arc-flash gear if I had to do much with that live, with a fair load.

*climbs into his suit that is way too hot, while already wearing FR pants and cotton shirt, cotton underwear (never treated with fabric softener), no metal buttons, insulating boots and gloves, and full face shield* OK let's see you play with a 200a 240v motor on that thing.

 

[n1ist]

That switch can either be used in 3-phase service (like Footer's) or single phase (like Gafftaper's). The "dummy fuse" is used for the neutral, since you wouldn't want a fused neutral.
/mike

 

[Esoteric]

Do you have the electric chair that goes to?

Mike

 

[Kelite]

Do you have the electric chair that goes to?

Mike

Always a realist in the crowd, hmmm?

 

[shiben]

Always a realist in the crowd, hmmm?

One just wonders what hes up to over there...

 

[tjrobb]

I win!
Until 2008, and the subsequent remodel, we have 96 (!) fuses in a LIVE-FRONT distribution board that I had the joy of working on (including the infamous "what do you mean the freezer no longer has power?" moment). The mains were a pair of these switches. The whole thing was designed to allow any of our 5 tenant meters to power any given room (think cross-connect). Now it only exists in photos. (Mind you, the room still does have the lead-sheathing comm. cable).

Back to the switch, we had a variant of the 3-pole shown here that originally controlled the projectors for the theatre, but only could power one at a time (SPDT). What I imagined happened is that the AC-DC motor-generator set was only big enough to power one at a time, so you threw the switch to whichever projector you needed to run. Sadly, it too was scrapped in the 2008 remodel; it had been dead for almost 20 years though.

Ah, the joys of maintaining a 90 year old building.

 

[JD]

What horrifies us indoors is common place outdoors. Watched a PECO lineman in a bucket flip shut an open pole fuse clip on a 13kv line last year that was obviously on a shorted leg. Forth of July for sure and the sound echoed through the neighborhood. Guy didn't even flinch. Simply opened the clip and got on his push-to-talk to say the line is still low.

 

[MPowers]

Hey People, This switch was once state of the art!!!! They were still quite common when I stated out in this business. The switch could be used in several ways, that is why it was so common. It could be used on any voltage, single phase, three phase Y, three phase Delta, you name it. The center tap was for neutral if a bar was placed in it as in the photo, or the bar was left out for 120 or 220 single phase. The advantages of the switch were many. It was robust and bullet proof, you had to have a sledge hammer to break it. It worked on any voltage, hertz, AC or DC. Water, coffee, coke couldn't hurt it or do more than make a brif spark-fizz. A;though there was a lot of copper compared to today's switches, it was very cheap, easy and quick to manufacture. As many of you may know, all the NYC Broadway houses were DC power into the '70s and some even later, so it was a popular component of broadway houses for a loooong time. Were they dangerous??? Of COURSE!!! But like many heavy equipment, construction grade things, safe in experienced, skilled hands. Potentially very dangerous in unskilled, untrained or careless hands.

Michael Powers, Project Manager, ETCP Certified Rigger-Theatre
Central Lighting & Equipment, Des Moines, Iowa. Central Lighting & Equipment