behringer x32

bishopthomas

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Jan 13, 2010
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Matt, I was waiting for someone to bring up the DDX3216. I never owned one, but I have read nothing but excellent things from very happy users. The only negative about the console is that they stopped making it. As far as your comments about QC, I completely agree with you as far as past issues and experiences. It seems to me that Behringer is really trying to turn their appearance around, although that is going to take a long time and effort. I've used two different X32's in show situations and I really like the console. I'm willing to give Behringer another shot, but unfortunately for them they may have permanently lost a lot of customers.
 

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While I do not think the X32 is going to replace most pro-designers rigs...it may do alot to make digital sound more affordable so we should see it in more educational settings, Night clubs, small musical theatres, small touring bands etc..so bully to them for making that possible.
In my venue it already is. We are going out for quotes tomorrow to pick this thing up. And, as far as cost accounting goes this 3,000 dollar console is going to pay itself off much faster then the 10,000 to 40,000 dollar consoles that we are used to buying. I spent today talking to the northeast D&B distributor about this very console... and they are blown away by it and what it can do. Yes, I have had to deal with the snickers from the guys as they roll of the bus, but with the 4 shows we have done on it thus far no one has had any complaints. All the artist leave happy and no one really cares what paint is on the console. My engineers love it. The pro world is going to eat this thing up... it sounds good, its small, and it is cheap. Instead of renting a console for 14 weeks at 500/wk, you can buy a console and pay it off in 6 weeks. At the end of the tour if it still works, you got a free console for the next gig. Hell, buy two and throw one under the bus as a spare. Everything has a life span in this industry. If you figure a 20,000 SC48 or M7 will last you 5 years before it stops filling riders, that is 76 dollars a week. Using that same math, you pay this console off in 10 months. So, in other words your console is paid off 4 years and 2 months earlier. If it lasts until the warranty is up in 3 years your way ahead. That is the real math at work here.

There is no reason to me that I think this console is not going to outlast its usefulness. The one I have feels great to the touch. I would not be buying this thing if I did not think I can fill riders and do shows with it... and I am not doing small shows in the least.
 

JohnD

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Kyle, I don't know if you have restrictions on who you can buy from, but I noticed this bundle from Proaudiostar in Brooklyn.
Behringer X32 Digital Mixer + Gator G-Tour X32
Same basic price as most of the usual suspects, but you sort of get the gator case for free. It is also a three part "nosecone" case instead of the usual two part case. It's not an R and R or Oly case, but still not bad.
 

mattseymour

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Nov 12, 2012
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United Kingdom
Matt, I was waiting for someone to bring up the DDX3216. I never owned one, but I have read nothing but excellent things from very happy users. The only negative about the console is that they stopped making it. As far as your comments about QC, I completely agree with you as far as past issues and experiences. It seems to me that Behringer is really trying to turn their appearance around, although that is going to take a long time and effort. I've used two different X32's in show situations and I really like the console. I'm willing to give Behringer another shot, but unfortunately for them they may have permanently lost a lot of customers.
The ddx3216 really was nicely designed. There were claims it copied the Yamaha 01v and while that's arguably true in terms of styling, Yamaha use all custom chips so it was a completely different beast inside. I used to use mine with all 32 channels, made direct out multi track recordings and I never needed to consult the manual once, such was the quality of the ui design.


The preamps left something to be desired but it sounded just fine.


I believe they stopped making it because analog devices stopped making the dsp chips it used. Might be wrong about that.


However the reason I parted with it was the fear of unreliability. It let me down once at a non-critical moment and then on repair many caps were found not to be soldered in place.


I think the latest manufacturing techniques, using surface mount, and processes such as xray examination of boards should mean this doesn't happen. However it shouldn't really have happened in the first place. I've long said Behringer reduce their costs by outsourcing qc to the end user. For a volume manufacturer that actually makes sense. Make the product cheap and disposable. If a product fails out of the box or within warranty just bin it and replace it. Inconvenient for the customer but not the end of the world.


However that approach can't work with a digital desk being aimed squarely at the smaller Yamaha market.


My suspicion is Behringer have vastly improved their manufacturing processes which makes failures less likely. However they may not have done much with their qc of the finished product. The example of ada8000 units with defective Adat chips hitting the market would back this up. It isn't enough to be sure you've assembled things correctly, you actually have to check they work properly too.


I do think Uli Behringer is genuine in wanting to build a lasting company of quality. Convincing audio pros will take a long time. I'd personally want the x32 to be out on the road for a couple of years before I could consider buying one.
 

museav

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I do think Uli Behringer is genuine in wanting to build a lasting company of quality. Convincing audio pros will take a long time. I'd personally want the x32 to be out on the road for a couple of years before I could consider buying one.
I agree and I think that for many of those people there is definitely a less than stellar legacy to overcome as well as addressing production, marketing, sales and distribution processes that originated to serve the entry level MI market.

Although not the only manufacturer with such issues, I think you still see vestiges of the latter in Behringer seeming to have difficulty getting products out in a timely manner, ala the X32, S16 and now the ELX series speakers. I understand wanting to create a market in advance of a product release but sound providers, consultants, contractors, etc. have to make commitments in advance and then live up to those commitments, thus they will support manufacturers that can do the same and avoid those who don't.

A 'to be seen' factor is continuing development and support. The long term viability of firmware and software based products can be very dependent on ongoing development and support and realistically, a lower cost, lower margin product can only justify continued development and support as long as the quantity of units being sold can support the associated costs. This has seemed to kill some otherwise promising products in the past and thus I will be interested to see how this works out for many of the newer, lower cost product offerings.

The same 'return on continued investment' factor also applies to hardware as manufacturers of chips, converters, etc. often find it increasingly difficult to justify continuing to manufacture components if they have a limited and decreasing market. And while bringing the component manufacturing in-house gives you much greater control, for example continuing a component production long after it might otherwise be financially justified, it also means having to support any component production off just your own sales. That is likely also one reason why it has been hinted that the X32 is just the first, and the flagship, of a series of products to be based around the same core hardware, firmware and software.

I believe the overall challenge is that of taking the advantages that may be derived from a commodity product approach and applying them to more professional products. Others have tried with mixed and often less than stellar results. I do think Behringer is in a unique position, is working on the related issues and has a good start with the X32, but bluntly, there were a lot of issues to address and some of them will require some time before the results can be judged.
 
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museav

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I've been looking for info on daisy chaining two X32s together. Does anyone know if this is a possibility or how it functions?
Daisy-chaining in what manner? What are you trying to do? You could take the analog outputs of one console into analog inputs on the other to cascade them but I get the feeling that is not what you're wanting to do.
 

DavidDaMonkey

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Daisy-chaining in what manner? What are you trying to do? You could take the analog outputs of one console into analog inputs on the other to cascade them but I get the feeling that is not what you're wanting to do.

Nope, I was hoping more for being able to have the two talk to each other to essentially have one board control over twice as many inputs and faders. Is that essentially what cascade is? Its something I've never had to deal with before. I wonder if I could send MIDI signals from one to the other to control scene changes. Not just next or previous, but jumping to actual scene numbers.
 

bishopthomas

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New Jersey
I think if you need 64 channels you're probably not going to be looking at Behringer products. And I say that as probably the most outspoken X32 fan on here.
 

Dreadpoet

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Paris, TX
Bishop...I totally agree with you...not only is a person probably not going to be looking at a behringer...the probably shouldn't be looking at the X32, there are better consoles out there for those with the currency and if you have the kind of need and "flow" to purchase the equipment that requires 64channes and over then you should sink more change in to a better sound console. What the X32 provides is a good solution for small operations at a reasonable $$.
 

indigo7us

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Oct 14, 2012
Location
Canyonville, Oregon
Hi there,

I've been looking back on hundreds of older posts (7+ year old posts) and this board seems like the answer for quite a few of them. I got the chance to use this for a couple of shows and its a pretty good board for what it does. There are situations where this thing is perfect, and times when this is not enough.

This board sounds pretty decent through mid level, tri amped JBL's.

It has quite a few really usefull features and is a very good value for the money.

This board will not fill riders anytime soon, and will probably not be great for large tours, but for a mid size club mixing various bands and variety acts, this thing will probably do everything you need it to do, and do it pretty well. Its fairly well built, not like a midas, but its not meant to compete with a midas. At a smaller level it does what it is supposed to do, and doesn't on the surface feel like a blatant reverse engineered rip off of every other digital board out there.

Time will tell if it can hold up, but for the time being it is a well priced mid-sized console and it delivers at that level, don't expect anything more, or less.

Just my 2 cents.

Devin
 

dbmcclain

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Nov 27, 2012
Location
Tucson, AZ
Send the reverb's return to mix 9/10. Although..... You're trying to compress the reverb? I'm not exactly following what you're trying to accomplish.
I found the way after another 10 minutes of exploring. There is a bank of AUX Returns that can be separately managed. Hence you can stack to your heart's content, up to 8 effects if you like. I have to say the X32 is a remarkable product for its price range.

At any rate, the reason for compressing the reverb, along with the dry signal, is to create a compression branch that gets mixed back in to the dry and dry-reverb branches. This produces "New York" compression, and it is used to enhance listening. At high input levels, the compression adds almost nothing to the dry sound. But as the levels decline, the compression adds more and more. The effect is much like "classic compression" curves, and is psychoacoustically more pleasing to listen to. Bass and treble don't disappear as quickly when the music drops in level. So it functions as a sort of dynamic "Loudness" control.

This is *not* intended for mastering or recording channels, but rather for monitoring channels. And since the reverb is part of the overall sound field, it should also be processed along with the dry channel, so that the psychoacoustic effects are imparted to the entire sound field.

- DM
 

museav

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At any rate, the reason for compressing the reverb, along with the dry signal, is to create a compression branch that gets mixed back in to the dry and dry-reverb branches. This produces "New York" compression, and it is used to enhance listening. At high input levels, the compression adds almost nothing to the dry sound. But as the levels decline, the compression adds more and more. The effect is much like "classic compression" curves, and is psychoacoustically more pleasing to listen to. Bass and treble don't disappear as quickly when the music drops in level. So it functions as a sort of dynamic "Loudness" control.
A lot of people probably know this as parallel compression and it's basically trying to enhance some of the details at lower levels without affecting the dynamics for higher level signals.
 

FMEng

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I wonder how well parallel compression works in the digital realm? If the digital compressor has any latency, it will not combine with the unprocessed channel without comb filtering when the two paths are near equal in gain. This may be something that works great in analog and turns to crap in digital, since latency is a fact of life.
 

JoeSanborn

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Sep 27, 2012
Location
United States
Hi Guys,
We have a few Webinars coming up:

X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - X32 & ProTools In-Depth
Join us for a Webinar on December 7

Space is limited.
Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/277188759

Please join us for our X32 Live! Webinar/User Group #13
The first hour of the webinar will focus setting up and configuring the X32 to use with ProTools. We will focus on getting audio in and out of PT, Control Surface functions using HUI with the X32, as well as other tips and tricks. We will also discuss how the X32 operates in the studio, identifying scenarios and situations unique to the studio world.
The second hour will be open for questions and live demos!

Title: X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - X32 & ProTools In-Depth
Date: Friday, December 7, 2012
Time: 4:00 PM - 6:00 PM PST


X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - X32 & S16 Stagebox
Join us for a Webinar on December 13

Space is limited.
Reserve your Webinar seat now at:
https://www4.gotomeeting.com/register/651672591

Please join us for our X32 Live! Webinar/User Group #14!
This Webinar will focus on expanding on our new Pro Audio family of products including the S16 Stagebox. We will go over setting up the S16, various configurations, and a variety of real-world scenarios in which you would use the Stagebox. We will also go over connecting the S16 with the X32 via Cat-5 cabling, and touch upon other products that could be used in conjunction with the X32 and the S16.
The second hour will be open for questions and live demos!

Title: X32 Live! Webinar/User Group - X32 & S16 Stagebox
Date: Thursday, December 13, 2012
Time: 1:00 PM - 3:00 PM PST

I hope you can make it!

Best
Joe Sanborn
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
 

dbelletz

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Jan 17, 2013
Location
San Antonio TX
Howdy.
Just got the x32.
Unboxed it, plugged it in, NOTHING

The only thing that lights up is the background lighting of the button to the right side of the display, nothing else.
Even waited a full 5 minutes, NOTHING.
Guess it has to back.

WAAAAAAAH!!!
 

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