Busking the improv shows
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soundofsparks
Active Member
You said "less than one second"... that's a bump.
If you wanted to have a fade of one second or longer, you should record a blank cue than before you want the black out (or cross fade) you type [Cue] [your blackout number] [Enter] then when the time comes you press [Go].
If you need it to be available at any point with zero notice, I'd write a macro that did the same.
You could also type [Group][Cue][Sneak][Time][X][Enter] or make a macro that did the same.
If you wanted to have a fade of one second or longer, you should record a blank cue than before you want the black out (or cross fade) you type [Cue] [your blackout number] [Enter] then when the time comes you press [Go].
If you need it to be available at any point with zero notice, I'd write a macro that did the same.
You could also type [Group][Cue][Sneak][Time][X][Enter] or make a macro that did the same.
KyleAnderson
Member
It sounds to me like you're trying to make your improv show work from a compromised situation. Your board layout isn't optimal because of the way you were thrown into the design position, and you had to make the best with what you have. Your channel layout is a mess because you didn't have the time to layout your channels in a way that made sense to the operator (also you). And with the main show being open, you can't make big changes because that show takes precedence. With those constraints, you're trying to make running improv shows easier, and give yourself the ability to do more for the improv than you can now.
Some questions:
1 - Did I misunderstand any of the above?
2 -Is the main show running off of cues, channel faders, or submaster faders? Or some combination of all three?
3 - How much time do you have between the main show coming down and the improv show starting? Are they one after another with an intermission? Different nights? Improv as encore?
In a best case scenario, to run an improv show like the one you're describing, I would want lots of good submaster and channel sliders. I wouldn't want to be grabbing cues or individual channels (except those on hard sliders), and I would do all I could to avoid macros, the keypad, and the need to reference paperwork. Having a smart physical layout that lets you run everything on sliders means you can keep your eyes on the action.
And, like I said before, it handles everything you've asked for. If you've built a look from subs, it lets you pull back the parts that you don't want. Mood changed? Pull the reds down a bit. Focus shifted locations? bump the stage left acting area a bit above the rest of the wash. Need a crazy effect? You've got several at a button press.
Can you get to such a situation if you:
A - rewrite the submasters? This assumes the main show is running on cues and thus the submasters are available. You could also create a new page of submasters. If you haven't used Pages yet ( [page][#][Enter] to move to a new set of subs. The default that the board loads when it opens is 1) then read that section of the manual and see if it's helpful given your circumstances.
B - Create a new show file for the improv show? If there is enough time between the end of one show and the beginning of another, you could load your improv show from a disk. For this you could re-write your soft patch to lay out all of your channels sensibly -- grouping your cyc colors together, your house lights in another place, and your area lights in a third. Then you can use submasters for looks and effects. When improv is over, you load the original show back into memory.
Regarding other suggestions: Two scene preset mode is great, especially if you know which game is next, or if you want to edit a scene by going to a color wash or cyc instead of a total blackout. The latter is how I used to run improv shows when 2 scenes were available -- A just had a color on the cyc or backlights, and B was where I played live, never having to worry about how I would reach every fader when a scene edit point presented itself. When it was time to edit a scene I would throw the AB faders and then quickly clear B. If you don't care about this then the grandmaster is just as effective.
Macros and cues... I really don't like this idea for the kind of show you're describing. They are ways to get the job done, but I think they would demand too much of your attention and focus when compared to a good physical sub and channel layout. You don't want to be referencing a cheat sheet during improv; you want your eyes on the stage. You don't want your fade times to fit into one of the several macros you've written, you want it to be fluid.
Fade times. You're absolutely right here. I would say that 80% of the time in improv you probably want a zero count blackout (or an immediate physical pull of the faders). But those other 20% of the time it's a terrible choice. A half second fade out in improv can feel like an eternity, especially if the actors haven't noticed the lights dimming (they haven't) and start a new line.
When pulling improv I almost always move the fader from 100 to about 20% as fast as possible, and then adjust my speed to approximate the fade time I would have wanted if I was ending a scene in a scripted show that just happened to end that way. That way the actors and audience can perceive the change happening right away, but the light move can still feel appropriate.
Here is the current layout of my submasters, with which I run improv every night:
1, 2, 3 are Red Green and Blue stage wash (LED).
4, 5, 6 are back lights red, green and blue (LED)
7, 8, 9 are red green and blue in the windows built into our set. (again, LED)
Those are all under my left hand.
Then 10 is empty.
11, 12, 13 are Left, center and right spotlights.
14 - 18 are areas of the wash, from stage right to stage left.
20 is my full wash. This is at about 80%. That way if I have a full wash up and I want to brighten up a particular area with one of those subs. Maybe an actor is singing far stage right, or I want to redirect attention to center left where somebody has started a subtle bit of object work.
I have more subs above those (on an Element with 60 subs) that I rarely touch. They have effects, practicals, and scene looks in them, and it's nice that they are there. But I'd rather lose all 40 of those subs than the 20 I just described. With my 20 I have color and mood under my left hand, and editing, specials and areas under my right. I can run a fast paced show without ever looking down, and I have lots of control of mood and shape at my disposal.
Some questions:
1 - Did I misunderstand any of the above?
2 -Is the main show running off of cues, channel faders, or submaster faders? Or some combination of all three?
3 - How much time do you have between the main show coming down and the improv show starting? Are they one after another with an intermission? Different nights? Improv as encore?
In a best case scenario, to run an improv show like the one you're describing, I would want lots of good submaster and channel sliders. I wouldn't want to be grabbing cues or individual channels (except those on hard sliders), and I would do all I could to avoid macros, the keypad, and the need to reference paperwork. Having a smart physical layout that lets you run everything on sliders means you can keep your eyes on the action.
And, like I said before, it handles everything you've asked for. If you've built a look from subs, it lets you pull back the parts that you don't want. Mood changed? Pull the reds down a bit. Focus shifted locations? bump the stage left acting area a bit above the rest of the wash. Need a crazy effect? You've got several at a button press.
Can you get to such a situation if you:
A - rewrite the submasters? This assumes the main show is running on cues and thus the submasters are available. You could also create a new page of submasters. If you haven't used Pages yet ( [page][#][Enter] to move to a new set of subs. The default that the board loads when it opens is 1) then read that section of the manual and see if it's helpful given your circumstances.
B - Create a new show file for the improv show? If there is enough time between the end of one show and the beginning of another, you could load your improv show from a disk. For this you could re-write your soft patch to lay out all of your channels sensibly -- grouping your cyc colors together, your house lights in another place, and your area lights in a third. Then you can use submasters for looks and effects. When improv is over, you load the original show back into memory.
Regarding other suggestions: Two scene preset mode is great, especially if you know which game is next, or if you want to edit a scene by going to a color wash or cyc instead of a total blackout. The latter is how I used to run improv shows when 2 scenes were available -- A just had a color on the cyc or backlights, and B was where I played live, never having to worry about how I would reach every fader when a scene edit point presented itself. When it was time to edit a scene I would throw the AB faders and then quickly clear B. If you don't care about this then the grandmaster is just as effective.
Macros and cues... I really don't like this idea for the kind of show you're describing. They are ways to get the job done, but I think they would demand too much of your attention and focus when compared to a good physical sub and channel layout. You don't want to be referencing a cheat sheet during improv; you want your eyes on the stage. You don't want your fade times to fit into one of the several macros you've written, you want it to be fluid.
Fade times. You're absolutely right here. I would say that 80% of the time in improv you probably want a zero count blackout (or an immediate physical pull of the faders). But those other 20% of the time it's a terrible choice. A half second fade out in improv can feel like an eternity, especially if the actors haven't noticed the lights dimming (they haven't) and start a new line.
When pulling improv I almost always move the fader from 100 to about 20% as fast as possible, and then adjust my speed to approximate the fade time I would have wanted if I was ending a scene in a scripted show that just happened to end that way. That way the actors and audience can perceive the change happening right away, but the light move can still feel appropriate.
Here is the current layout of my submasters, with which I run improv every night:
1, 2, 3 are Red Green and Blue stage wash (LED).
4, 5, 6 are back lights red, green and blue (LED)
7, 8, 9 are red green and blue in the windows built into our set. (again, LED)
Those are all under my left hand.
Then 10 is empty.
11, 12, 13 are Left, center and right spotlights.
14 - 18 are areas of the wash, from stage right to stage left.
20 is my full wash. This is at about 80%. That way if I have a full wash up and I want to brighten up a particular area with one of those subs. Maybe an actor is singing far stage right, or I want to redirect attention to center left where somebody has started a subtle bit of object work.
I have more subs above those (on an Element with 60 subs) that I rarely touch. They have effects, practicals, and scene looks in them, and it's nice that they are there. But I'd rather lose all 40 of those subs than the 20 I just described. With my 20 I have color and mood under my left hand, and editing, specials and areas under my right. I can run a fast paced show without ever looking down, and I have lots of control of mood and shape at my disposal.
soundofsparks
Active Member
Fair.
You could apply any of the other procedures for times from 0.1 seconds to 99 minutes.
Your macro buttons are [M1] [M2] [M3] [M*].
The first three are hard coded in the OS to the first three macros and [M*] would be followed by a number.
The clear time can be anything you want it to be (from 0.1 sec to 100 min). Most usually leave this set to 5 sec.
Unused softkeys are not programmable but console hardkeys M1, M2, M3, and M* relate to macros 1, 2, 3, #.
-----
See also the thread http://www.controlbooth.com/threads...-with-conventionals-and-an-etc-express.26660/ .
Last edited:
lwinters630
Well-Known Member
Stage is what the audience sees. Blind, they don't. Example: while running a "live" show you are told they moved the actor from DR to DR In cue 160. You can hit the blind mode and edit the cue. then switch back to stage View. It is really just which view is on you monitors. Some call it live and preview.
By the way the go button is still active as well as your sliders so you can keep running the show while you edit.
Another trick is group sub. I use is to build cues from subs. So I set subs for the drummer, lead, base, main vocal and back ups. Then slide them up, record my cues. Then I can hit group sub 1 and wheel down (trak pad) the main vocal. Actually on the express, expression and insight I just make it a group as they will keep channel and values. Not so on the ION.
Have fun.
I've ended up patching the house to an inhibitor sub for that very reason.
Edit: especially because Im a high schooler. On the best of days, I'm forgetful and hormoneal. And the rest of the crew...
lwinters630
Well-Known Member
soundofsparks
Active Member
Exclusive, right. Couldn't think of the name.
lwinters630
Well-Known Member
I read some of the postings for Artable, your express has like 600 cues, 500 groups, 240 subs, and more macros than I will use in a life time. Note: cues, subs and groups are all the same with some minor differences. The all store channels and values. Cues play in order. Subs have hanlde for finger control. And groups are like subs without a handle. The comand "group xxx" means treat the next thing xxx like a group. So I can say group cue 60 full enter. And then group cue 60 at 0. Rrlease, or sneak.
I would not run a two scene as it is too cumbersome. Put your basic rep for FOH face light on sub sliders. Then make basic color wash cues with cheat sheet notes. Use the cue 60 go. Then cue 100 go. You can set them at manual times or leave at 5 sec but pull your AB slider down now you have manual control. You can also use the link skip or change your cue order.
Make lots of groups also, then you can past them into live cues or into subs... anywhere.
Mostly experiment to find what works for you.
I am proud that you are doing such great things At your age. Think not what you csnt do, take pleasure in what you have done, hope in what you will do. Keep trying new things ( and a good improv should be able to cover a black out) kidding. ..... Ps try a white out.
I would not run a two scene as it is too cumbersome. Put your basic rep for FOH face light on sub sliders. Then make basic color wash cues with cheat sheet notes. Use the cue 60 go. Then cue 100 go. You can set them at manual times or leave at 5 sec but pull your AB slider down now you have manual control. You can also use the link skip or change your cue order.
Make lots of groups also, then you can past them into live cues or into subs... anywhere.
Mostly experiment to find what works for you.
I am proud that you are doing such great things At your age. Think not what you csnt do, take pleasure in what you have done, hope in what you will do. Keep trying new things ( and a good improv should be able to cover a black out) kidding. ..... Ps try a white out.
lwinters630
Well-Known Member
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