Live concert lighting with conventionals and an ETC Express

[Eriksrocks]

Hi guys, my high school is doing our annual "rock concert" this Friday where a bunch of student bands get together and perform. I've been designing lighting for the past couple of years but am by no means an expert, and I was wondering if I could get your advice and tips/tricks on how to best control/improv concert lighting live given that our rig will be almost all conventionals and we only have an Express 48/96.

In past years I basically just re-gelled what lighting we had left from our fall musical, but this year I want to make it look as good as possible. I'm probably going to divide the stage into 4 general areas in a diamond formation, with two colors of backlight from fresnels and S4 PARnels for each area, then the rest of the (2nd) electric will be filled with 19 degree S4's aimed DS in random directions to give that "concert" feel without the moving lights (we do have a hazer). I'll probably have more ellipsoidals on 1st aimed down and/or out into the house, as well as some toplight and frontlight for US, and then probably just general washes on the catwalks. Plus a ton of sidelight and maybe a couple of S4 PAR's on the deck for effect.

Anyways I'm mainly looking for advice on how to best control all of this live. Given that I don't know any of the music or the order that the bands will be performing in (i.e. no set list), programming to the music is out of the question. I will have to improv it all live. In past years this usually meant picking a primary backlight color, setting levels for a song, and then just slowly fading between two backlight submasters or something similar. Pretty lame and not at all that 'concert' feel. This year we've got a Radiance Hazer so I want to try something more ambitious and get that 'rock concert'/club feel even though we don't have movers. I'm assuming it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to improv a complex lighting design to the timing of the song without ever hearing the music, so what's the best way to fake it? I want the lighting to look as complex as possible without me having to rapidly bump subs and fixtures to each beat as I'm trying to guess how the song is going to progress. It needs to be relatively easy to control, but I still want to be able to adapt to the tone/pace of the song, if that makes sense.

Anyone have experience with doing this on an Express or a board like it? Any tips or tricks? I have ~20 subs available to me, so would the best method be to designate 3-5 subs for general area washes and then program effects into the rest that I can fade up and down or bump as needed? So for example one sub would be "ellipsoidals slow moving fades" and then another would be "ellipsoidals chase" and then another would be "ellipsoidals fast chase" and then maybe "purple backlight forward chase", "purple backlight reverse chase", "purple backlight random strobe" etc. Hopefully you get the idea. My only concern is whether I would be able to find and use these fast enough to improv and keep up with the music. Would programming effects into cues be useful at all?

I guess my biggest fear is trying to improv and "guess" a moment in the song and being wrong and then the lighting is just awkward or off beat.

How do small clubs typically do this? Do they just run a few standard chases regardless of the song, is there a board op that is constantly improvising with the band, do they use a controller that activates the chase with the beat, etc? I can understand how maybe a random chase between lots of lights in close proximity would work in a small club, but this is a stage with a proscenium that's 46' x 33', electrics will probably be about 30' in the air - I want as much of the full concert lighting feel as possible and as you can imagine a random chase between all the fixtures probably isn't going to look that good.

Anyways I apologize for the wall of text and any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

- Erik

 

[soundman]

Anyone have experience with doing this on an Express or a board like it? Any tips or tricks? I have ~20 subs available to me, so would the best method be to designate 3-5 subs for general area washes and then program effects into the rest that I can fade up and down or bump as needed? So for example one sub would be "ellipsoidals slow moving fades" and then another would be "ellipsoidals chase" and then another would be "ellipsoidals fast chase" and then maybe "purple backlight forward chase", "purple backlight reverse chase", "purple backlight random strobe" etc. Hopefully you get the idea. My only concern is whether I would be able to find and use these fast enough to improv and keep up with the music. Would programming effects into cues be useful at all?

I guess my biggest fear is trying to improv and "guess" a moment in the song and being wrong and then the lighting is just awkward or off beat.

- Erik

Sounds like you'll be busking the show. I'm sure this has been talked about before but here is another take on it.

Well you have 240 sub masters, not ~20. They are on different pages but that's ok. You also have 96 faders for direct access. That is a lot more power than some LDs had 25 years ago and they could create some good shows so don't think you are limited by technology.

Think about your patching to make the most of the 96 fades. If you patch your floor effects to channels 49 through 52 you keep the bump buttons near the submasters and should be able to bump through the floor lights for accents easily. If you patch down as much as possible you will save alot of subs. You might be able to get away with all the band front lights on one channel, run it at 60% and forget about it. You won't be able to predict a solo anyway so let the spots cover it.

Think about how you can structure the subs to get the most bang for you buck. Are there any looks you have to have on every page? Perhaps house lights for an emergency (if they are on DMX and if they can't be patched down) perhaps a set change look and a general wash for MCs. That leaves you with 20 subs for the acts.

If it were me I would try and come up with 6 pages with subs broken down into 2 groups of three. Fast songs and slow songs, chances are you will be able to tell from the band name or look what style they are going to be. I would do 2 pages of looks and then a 'best of page' with your favorites from each. This way you won't use all you looks with the first act leaving the rest of the show to be repetitive.

I would do 10-15 looks to fade between and have the rest be chases. But to each his own.

As far as running the show - At least each song needs one look. A slow song might look best with just a nice static look. Never be afraid to set and forget. The next level of complexity is a look for the verse and a look for the chorus. Just build on that as you get comfortable with the music. start hitting accents and being able to anticipate changes. Invite the lead singer's girlfriend into the booth with you, she will be a great help as she will know all the music. If the lead singer isn't in a relationship there is a good chance the lighting won't be able to save the band //mild sarcasm. Expect alot of covers, which will be helpful. And listen to the sound check if there is one, it will allow you to get a feel for what will be coming at you later.

 

[Eriksrocks]

Sounds like you'll be busking the show. I'm sure this has been talked about before but here is another take on it.

Well you have 240 sub masters, not ~20. They are on different pages but that's ok. You also have 96 faders for direct access. That is a lot more power than some LDs had 25 years ago and they could create some good shows so don't think you are limited by technology.

Think about your patching to make the most of the 96 fades. If you patch your floor effects to channels 49 through 52 you keep the bump buttons near the submasters and should be able to bump through the floor lights for accents easily. If you patch down as much as possible you will save alot of subs. You might be able to get away with all the band front lights on one channel, run it at 60% and forget about it. You won't be able to predict a solo anyway so let the spots cover it.

Think about how you can structure the subs to get the most bang for you buck. Are there any looks you have to have on every page? Perhaps house lights for an emergency (if they are on DMX and if they can't be patched down) perhaps a set change look and a general wash for MCs. That leaves you with 20 subs for the acts.

If it were me I would try and come up with 6 pages with subs broken down into 2 groups of three. Fast songs and slow songs, chances are you will be able to tell from the band name or look what style they are going to be. I would do 2 pages of looks and then a 'best of page' with your favorites from each. This way you won't use all you looks with the first act leaving the rest of the show to be repetitive.

I would do 10-15 looks to fade between and have the rest be chases. But to each his own.

As far as running the show - At least each song needs one look. A slow song might look best with just a nice static look. Never be afraid to set and forget. The next level of complexity is a look for the verse and a look for the chorus. Just build on that as you get comfortable with the music. start hitting accents and being able to anticipate changes. Invite the lead singer's girlfriend into the booth with you, she will be a great help as she will know all the music. If the lead singer isn't in a relationship there is a good chance the lighting won't be able to save the band //mild sarcasm. Expect alot of covers, which will be helpful. And listen to the sound check if there is one, it will allow you to get a feel for what will be coming at you later.

Thanks! That actually helps a lot! I guess I forgot about changing pages. I thought I wouldn't have time to do it mid-song, but it makes a lot more sense to make a "fast" page, a "slow" page, etc.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

I'm gonna 2nd SoundMan's suggestion that you should not be afraid to just have a static look sometimes, remember you're not being paid by the cue! And by having some songs with less than others, it makes your bigger looks seem even bigger.

 

[derekleffew]

I forget (if I ever knew) can one put effects on subs on the Express? Is the effects package the same/similar to the Expression 3? I usually program a boatload of chases: fast/slow, bright/dim, single color/multi-color, all the various groupings of the rig I can think of. Know what all the effects attributes (negative, reverse, build, bounce, random, etc.) do. I find myself editing chase attributes in blind during the show. Turning some OFF and others ON makes it into a whole different chase. Bump buttons are great, but once you start, you've pretty much committed yourself for the entire song--you can't stop midway though.

Eriksrocks, hopefully you have at least one followspot and competent operator(s). Let them do their thing--they keep the "talent" lit. You might want to call blackout s and restore s at ends of songs. Otherwise, just tell them to "light the money."

There are some external articles referenced in the wiki entry busking. Read those; just adapt if/when they talk too much about moving lights. You think busking conventionals is hard for a band you've never seen, wait until you try it with moving lights, which MUST always be preprogrammed, at least to some extent.

 

[chausman]

I forget (if I ever knew) can one put effects on subs on the Express? Is the effects package the same/similar to the Expression 3? I usually program a boatload of chases: fast/slow, bright/dim, single color/multi-color, all the various groupings of the rig I can think of. Know what all the effects attributes (negative, reverse, build, bounce, random, etc.) do. I find myself editing chase attributes in blind during the show. Turning some OFF and others ON makes it into a whole different chase.

Yes, you can put effects on subs on an Express. (I can't answer to how they compare to Expression 3 though) I personally found it rather finicky to set up and change the rate at first, but I'm not very patient. If you take the time to get them set up well, they do function great. The manual has a great tutorial for them, and then just play with the different attributes of the effects.

 

[Eriksrocks]

Yes, you can put effects on subs on an Express. (I can't answer to how they compare to Expression 3 though) I personally found it rather finicky to set up and change the rate at first, but I'm not very patient. If you take the time to get them set up well, they do function great. The manual has a great tutorial for them, and then just play with the different attributes of the effects.

I wasn't even aware that effects on the Express had attributes that you could change - I thought they were just a list of steps with programmable intervals in between. But looking at the manual it appears you are right. I guess I should read up on programming effects again. I just wish I could put anything on any fader.

Edit: this almost makes me want to buy a USB dongle and bring in my desktop so I can program anything I want to. But I downloaded MagicQ last week, took one look and was like NOPE NOPE NOPE (not in a week at least). Anything that's easier to use that still has enough power to do a complex show (and control movers well, since we have two really cheap scanners that I might end up using anyways)?

 

[soundman]

I wasn't even aware that effects on the Express had attributes that you could change - I thought they were just a list of steps with programmable intervals in between. But looking at the manual it appears you are right. I guess I should read up on programming effects again. I just wish I could put anything on any fader.

Yea it would be great if you could treat a submaster like it's own cue stack. I would stay away from PC playback. For busking you will want as many handles as possible and on a PC you can bogged down in clicking around.

Also don't forget a well timed mid song black out and be powerful.

Speaking of effects on an Express. How about a story. I was doing a fashion show as an automation operator and it was show day after two crazy days of load in. Not only were the days long the labor was intense. About an hour before the only rehearsal the designer shows up. He speaks perfect French but his English is not the greatest, the language issue only creates more stress. Something has him worked up and the board op can't seem to get what he wants taken care of. His request isn't to hard, he just wants the lights to pulse like they are breathing. The more the board op struggles the more frustrated the designer gets and the worse the booth vibe gets, which directly effect my day. I offer to lend a hand and bring back my 'Stage Lighting 101' knowledge and after two tries nail the effect. Much rejoicing. Moral of the story: You never know what skills you will need on any one day. By being able to master the effects on an express today in five years you might be a hero.

 

[TimMiller]

The express is one of the best consoles for conventional concerts. What you want to do is set up some color washes to wash the entire stage. Indigo, dark blue, magenta, yellow. If you have enough put the same wash on an upstage bar to backlight the band. Then focus some specials on each performer position using your s4's. This allows you to do solo spots. Some side breakups also add cool effects. Never rely on a chase stack or effects generator. Too many ld's do and it creates a very redundant show. For ease of use keep everything on one page. Patch each of your upstage and down stage washes onto a channel. Up stage indigo on ch 1 up stage yellow on 2 etc. do the same for down stage i always put my upstage washes on the upper handles and the downstage on the ones direct below. You can also set some color combos on your subs. Also set each special on its own sub ie. drummer, bass guitar, keyboard, etc. chase the music by using the bump buttons also you can bump your color combos on your subs. Or use your subs to create a base look for the song then you have controls of your color bumps. Using upstage lighting really adds to the concert feel. Also with concert lighting I really opens up your color palette. I worked with a guy who always spec'd an etc 48/96 for conventional rigs.

 

[MrsFooter]

Busking with a conventional rig on an ECT Express? That is my job. Seriously, I do this everyday. In the past month alone I've lit Bettye Lavette, Ray Davies (lead singer of The Kinks,) and The Doors using this setup, and everyone seemed super happy. Here's what I do.

Four top/bax systems in super saturated colors. Two high side systems, also in super saturated colors. Fudge some ACL-esque fixtures by randomly focusing some lekos. Floor units if it's calls for it. Haze if the talent allows it, but only enough to establish some beam shape.

I only use the 24 subs on Page 1. I realize that there are more available, but when I'm busking live I often have to grab at handles quickly and I find it simpler if I stay on one page. What I do do, however, (hehe, I said doo-doo,) is program myself a series of looping cue stacks. For example, if I want my blue PARS (Ch 1-3, for example,) to chase, LX 1 will be Ch 1 @ FL, LX 1.1 will be Ch 2 @ FL, and LX 1.2 will be Ch 3 @ FL, with LX 1.2 linking back to LX 1. Time of 0 on everything. So instead of having to play spider fingers over your bump buttons, you're just hitting GO with the beat. I have approximately 25 of these cue stacks programmed that I use in conjunction with my subs. (Oh, and don't forget to program yourself a BO cue. Gotta give yourself a way out that doesn't snap.)

Is it a little ghetto? Mmm-yep. Is there probably a better, more sophisticated way to go about it? Probably. But this is the method that I've found that allows me the most options and flexibility while simplifying the process enough to not hurt myself, and when you're busking a show you don't know both flexibility and not hurting yourself are key.

Whatever method you go with, a few things to never forget:

*Put light where you want it.
*Take light away from where you don't want it.
*Taking light away can be just as effective as adding light.
*Never leave the talent in the black.
*Nobody likes green.

Best of luck!

 

[SteveB]

*Nobody likes green.

Not True !. Caribbean Reggae or Calypso looks great with some R94 in the Bax or L116 hi-sides.

 

[Gern]

Not True !. Caribbean Reggae or Calypso looks great with some R94 in the Bax or L116 hi-sides.

yaa mon!

 

[Eriksrocks]

Busking with a conventional rig on an ECT Express? That is my job. Seriously, I do this everyday. In the past month alone I've lit Bettye Lavette, Ray Davies (lead singer of The Kinks,) and The Doors using this setup, and everyone seemed super happy. Here's what I do.

Four top/bax systems in super saturated colors. Two high side systems, also in super saturated colors. Fudge some ACL-esque fixtures by randomly focusing some lekos. Floor units if it's calls for it. Haze if the talent allows it, but only enough to establish some beam shape.

I only use the 24 subs on Page 1. I realize that there are more available, but when I'm busking live I often have to grab at handles quickly and I find it simpler if I stay on one page. What I do do, however, (hehe, I said doo-doo,) is program myself a series of looping cue stacks. For example, if I want my blue PARS (Ch 1-3, for example,) to chase, LX 1 will be Ch 1 @ FL, LX 1.1 will be Ch 2 @ FL, and LX 1.2 will be Ch 3 @ FL, with LX 1.2 linking back to LX 1. Time of 0 on everything. So instead of having to play spider fingers over your bump buttons, you're just hitting GO with the beat. I have approximately 25 of these cue stacks programmed that I use in conjunction with my subs. (Oh, and don't forget to program yourself a BO cue. Gotta give yourself a way out that doesn't snap.)

Is it a little ghetto? Mmm-yep. Is there probably a better, more sophisticated way to go about it? Probably. But this is the method that I've found that allows me the most options and flexibility while simplifying the process enough to not hurt myself, and when you're busking a show you don't know both flexibility and not hurting yourself are key.

Whatever method you go with, a few things to never forget:

*Put light where you want it.
*Take light away from where you don't want it.
*Taking light away can be just as effective as adding light.
*Never leave the talent in the black.
*Nobody likes green.

Best of luck!

Thanks for the advice! Do you just put static groups of lights on the subs then and blend to get different looks? (i.e. gen front wash, color 1 bax, color 2 bax, color 3 high sides, color 4 high sides, etc.) Or do you have any effects on the submasters as well? I was thinking about using the cue stack to run chases and I think I'm going to now that you've recommended it - it's not that hard to just keep a finger bumping the Go button. Only thing is it would limit me to 1 chase/scene unless I create cue sets that incorporate multiple chases. Hmm...

Anyways I am finishing the plot right now and I'll post it when I am done if anyone is curious or wants to offer feedback. Thanks so much for all the help so far! Control Booth is amazing!

EDIT: What's an ACL fixture look like? The wiki entry didn't help me much on imagining what sort of beam/look it gives.

 

[Eriksrocks]

Not True !. Caribbean Reggae or Calypso looks great with some R94 in the Bax or L116 hi-sides.

Not familiar with these colors (we pretty much have only Rosco in our small inventory), but one color I do wish we had is something like R370 Italian Blue. Our selection of blueish gels is currently limited to R80, R67, R55, R60, and R377 (more purple than blue, but looked awesome as backlight wash for Beauty and the Beast and I plan on keeping it in the plot as a back wash color). The R377 is probably the closest thing we have to Congo Blue.

 

[chausman]

The R377 is probably the closest thing we have to Congo Blue.

I believe it was Derekleffew who said something along the lines of "Every music show needs Congo Blue".

I was thinking about using the cue stack to run chases and I think I'm going to now that you've recommended it - it's not that hard to just keep a finger bumping the Go button. Only thing is it would limit me to 1 chase/scene unless I create cue sets that incorporate multiple chases. Hmm...

If it were me, I would put different color chases on like 100s, 200s, etc. and program some macros to go to specific chases in the cue stack. If you made sure whatever the last fixture of each color was linked back to the first fixture of that color, they wouldnt start running into each other. Just a thought.

 

[Eriksrocks]

I believe it was Derekleffew who said something along the lines of "Every music show needs Congo Blue".

I'm not sure I really understand the infatuation with this color - isn't it so saturated that you would need tons of fixtures for it to be visible with anything else?

Or is it mostly just used as back light to accent the set for set changes, in between songs, etc.?

 

[drummerboi316]

What's an ACL fixture look like? The wiki entry didn't help me much on imagining what sort of beam/look it gives.

The white light at center is along the lines of an ACL light. A very skinny beam of light. Usually used in groups.

 

[mstaylor]

I'm not sure I really understand the infatuation with this color - isn't it so saturated that you would need tons of fixtures for it to be visible with anything else?

Or is it mostly just used as back light to accent the set for set changes, in between songs, etc.?

Congo blue is a great color onstage for R&R, or any kind of music. Congo and fog is incredible together. Mix it with pinks,lavs or even white and anchors the visual.

 

[SteveB]

EDIT: What's an ACL fixture look like? The wiki entry didn't help me much on imagining what sort of beam/look it gives.

ACL = AirCraft Landing (light). 28v Par64 lamp @ 600 watts ea. (typically) in a Par64 can, wired in series and hung in a cluster with 4 total fixtures in the series on a 2kw dimmer. Usually hung as a "Finger Fan" of shafts of white light, often as a pipe/truss end on L & R and a center set, or same thing on the floor. Very tight beam spread (as per the photo). Very useful for "Button" bumps at the end of a song as accent to the last cymbal crash or some such.

 

[derekleffew]

I'm not sure I really understand the infatuation with this color - isn't it so saturated that you would need tons of fixtures for it to be visible with anything else?

Yep, that's the point--Congo Blue is dark and rich and super-saturated. and Yes, it does require more horsepower than any other color. Perhaps twice as many narrow-beam fixtures as a regular wash, i.e., if 6 MFL lamps are used for other colors, the L181 wash would be 12 NSP lamps.

-----

For a quasi-simulated ACL effect, use the gobo "row of dots."

Apollo MS-2291, or easily crafted by oneself
(Play with the alignment/rotation of the gobo; one reason it's a popular choice in moving lights.)