A local middle school is putting on a production of Willy Wonka, and, since one of the directors knows me very well, I have been asked to help them sort out their sound and lighting situation. I have little experience with theater lighting, only the two basic systems, which I can not even recall the make or model, that were in my high school but I tend to find myself very handy with figuring out electronics. The following is my guessing based on my readings of different posts throughout the internet. The system has 2 Electro Control Playmate dimmer packs. I was able to get these to power up aftering having the ISD electrician replace the main fuses. On the front of each Playmate, there are 3 places to plug in fuses. I only have a total of 4 fuses meaning I can have 2 on both or 3 on one and 1 on the other. There is a small switch on each Playmater label Test with positions seq, on, off. By placing this on seq, the lights will all cycle through, I assume testing each feed to make sure it works, and of every one they come on, so I know that power is getting to the lights and that the dimmer packs are communicating with the lights. There is also a Electro Controls Celebrity board. From my readings, both the dimmer packs and board use ECMux protocol so they should be able to work together, and I assume they were the original pieces. After some hunting, I found the hold on the on/off key, of course in some far off office and I was given several keys and instructed to "find the one that works, just try not to break the other ones, they must go to something." I am able to get the board to power up and have even figured out how to set and delete the x/y presets and stage record buttons. The only problem is that the faders have no effect at all on the lights. I have the Master slider, the Independent Masters, the Scene Masters, and all scene faders on and there are not lights on. This is with the Test switch set to off, which I assume is as it must be. I have also tried with the switch set to on, seq, and all different combination of settings for the faders. I am unable to get any of the lights to respond. One of the things that doesn't make much sense to me is there is only one cord coming out of the Celebrity board, but I have two Playmates. I'm not certain if these are wired together so they communicate with each other or what. I have tried all possible combinations of getting the board to the dimmer packs to no avail. If anyone has any information on how to get these lights to respond to the board I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Vintage Lighting Electro Controls Celebrity Board - Help needed
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Yes, the Test switch should be in the "off" position for normal operation.
It sounds like ECmux (see below) is not getting to the dimmer pack s. It should daisy chain thru them, long cable runs from the console to the first dimmer pack, then a short cable jumps out of Pack#1 into Pack#2. Which reminds me, it could also be somethign with the address of the packs. Or, The Celebrity console may not be outputting properly, the dimmers may not be listening properly, or there could be a problem with the cabling.
Hopefully one of our members in the DFW area will see this and be able to assist. I wouldn't put much effect or expense into repairing; it's likely more cost-effective to rent or to purchase a new or used system.
See also http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/10621-inherited-ghost.html .
For those who don't know, the EC Playmate was a response to the CD80 portable dimmer pack.
http://www.emlight.com/html/dimmer_retrofits.html
It sounds like ECmux (see below) is not getting to the dimmer pack s. It should daisy chain thru them, long cable runs from the console to the first dimmer pack, then a short cable jumps out of Pack#1 into Pack#2. Which reminds me, it could also be somethign with the address of the packs. Or, The Celebrity console may not be outputting properly, the dimmers may not be listening properly, or there could be a problem with the cabling.
Hopefully one of our members in the DFW area will see this and be able to assist. I wouldn't put much effect or expense into repairing; it's likely more cost-effective to rent or to purchase a new or used system.
See also http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/10621-inherited-ghost.html .
For those who don't know, the EC Playmate was a response to the CD80 portable dimmer pack.
http://www.emlight.com/html/dimmer_retrofits.html
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derekleffew: Thank you so much for you response. I did read that thread you referenced, and I had some questions about it. I have read some about ECMux and what I read explains what each of the pins in the connector is for. As for the cable, is this a special ECMux cable or just a plain 4 pin microphone cable. We have plenty of those laying around and if that is all it takes I can try to use one tomorrow and see if I got as lucky as the poster of Inherited a ghost! Now that you mention the daisy chaining of the dimmer packs, I do recall two sets of aluminum covered wires coming out of the back of each box into the wall, they could be daisy chained there. I am just helping out with this production and I doubt the school plans on spending any more money than they already have into it, this is the first play that most of the faculty can remember so 20+ years, so replacing or professional repairing is out of the question. The city theater was nice enough to lend us anything we needed for scenery, props, and costumes so I'm hoping they will also have a spare ECMux board we can use or know any way to get this working. Speaking with them is also on the agenda for tomorrow.
mstaylor: I have attached some pictures by mrblurrycam to this post and will take better pictures tomorrow and attach them to the original post.
Front of Playmates
Back of Playmates
Face of Celebrity board
Back of Celebrity board
mstaylor: I have attached some pictures by mrblurrycam to this post and will take better pictures tomorrow and attach them to the original post.
Front of Playmates
Back of Playmates
Face of Celebrity board
Back of Celebrity board
First problem I see is that the control cable is not connected to both packs, your probably gonna need a cable to daisy chain pack 1 to pack 2, using those green cables on the front. Those thick cables coming out the back probably are for power input and the connections to the lights.
Have you checked if the packs are addressed properly? Addressing is accomplished with the dip switches on the front of the packs, im not familiar with that protocol but someone may be able to point you in the right direction.
Also, are you sure that any of the lights work? Perhaps all the lamps are burned out
Wait, I just noticed something in your picture. It looks like the control cable is coming out of the pack and the traveling under the pack. Then in the next picture, it looks like that same wire is going into the back of a small board on a shelf under neath the pack? Is that another lighting board? Does it work? If the control cable indeed goes to whatever that device is, it would at least explain why the FOH console isn't talking to the dimmers.
Have you checked if the packs are addressed properly? Addressing is accomplished with the dip switches on the front of the packs, im not familiar with that protocol but someone may be able to point you in the right direction.
Also, are you sure that any of the lights work? Perhaps all the lamps are burned out
Wait, I just noticed something in your picture. It looks like the control cable is coming out of the pack and the traveling under the pack. Then in the next picture, it looks like that same wire is going into the back of a small board on a shelf under neath the pack? Is that another lighting board? Does it work? If the control cable indeed goes to whatever that device is, it would at least explain why the FOH console isn't talking to the dimmers.
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This blog may be of some help.
The Electro Controls Archive
Here is the page for the dimmers: The Electro Controls Archive: The Quad Dimmer
As derek already said check the address of the dimmer packs. I am pretty sure ECmux carried 512 channels, so it might not be set to 1.
The Electro Controls Archive
Here is the page for the dimmers: The Electro Controls Archive: The Quad Dimmer
As derek already said check the address of the dimmer packs. I am pretty sure ECmux carried 512 channels, so it might not be set to 1.
Odds are 1000 to 1 against you finding a compatible console or dimmers.
It appears your packs have a D4F for Control IN; and a D5F for Control OUT, so you'd need a cable with a male XLR4 on one end and a male XLR5 on the other to jump between the packs. I believe the system only needs pins 1&2 wired, according to KnowledgeBase: ECMUX Pinout and Protocol - ETC.
The "aluminum covered wires coming out of the back" are in power input for each pack. There should be similar on the other side for the dimmer outputs. This may go to a patch panel or wired directly to receptacle s around the venue.
Until/unless you locate the two missing fuse holder caps for the top pack, it will never work.
From the pictures, it looks like all the address setting dip switch es on both packs are are off. I'm not sure if this would make dimmers 1-12 on that pack be dimmers 1-12 on the console or not. Normally one would to address the first pack to be dimmers 1-12 and the second to be 13-24. Perhaps someone reading can rustle up a user manual for the PlayMate dimmer pack.
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I did notice that the 12 switched are all flipped up. I believe this is the address? Like a binary yes or no?
Yes I'm sure they work haha. That was the first thing I checked. I can out each dimmer in seq mode under the test switch and the lights will come on as the sequence through, out of the 60+ lights I believe 3 are burnt out.
There is a 4 pin cord coming out of one of the dimmer packs that is plugged in to the celebrity board. I assumed that this is the board to control the output of the dimmer packs. This is the only board that is connected to the packs.
For the daisy chaining, the only input places on the dimmer packs are a 4 prong and 5 prong female plugs. So I need to use my 4 prong cable to dimmer 1, 5 prong out of dimmer 1 into the 4 prong plug on dimmer 2? Where would I order a 4 prong male to 5 prong male cable? Is it common enough to be at a music store?
Thank you all for the help you have already given me!
Not necessarily. Some schemes (*cough*High End Systems*cough*) are offset by one, i.e., all dip switches off = address 001.
This is easy enough to figure out, once the console is talking to the dimmers; if everything is off by one, use the other scheme.
Also try switch#10 in both positions. It was sometimes used to set a mode.
A music store might have the connectors (Switchcraft A4M, A5M, or equivalent), a good electronics store definitely would; but no one will have a pre-made cable, as there are too many possible variants. Do you know anyone who knows how to solder to make a cable for you? As I said earlier, there's no reason to make a cable until you get two replacement fuse caps for the top dimmer pack. If you can't find these at an electronics store, you may have to order them from Lite-Trol or Emlight. And by the way, either would likely know what the proper dip switch settings. And may be able to source user manual s for you.
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I have the address set to binary 1. The 1 switch on all else off. I have tried toggling the 10 switch but to no avail. On the front of the dimmer box only the power light is on not channel or data/temp. All three fuses are good and I am trying to just run one dimmer box no daisy chain for right now. On my board the power, battery, and transmit lights are green and the red error light is not on but I still cannot control the dimmer pack. Any suggestions?
Not to sound dumb or anything but is the blackout button pushed? In a blowup of the picture of the front of the board, to the left of the blue preset 1 area there is a slider in the black area which I assume is the grandmaster. Above that there appears to be a button pressed down which I would expect to be a blackout button. You also seem to have only one of the faders for preset 2 up and both down for preset 1, I'd bring the other fder for preset 2 up and see what that does.
The spec sheet for the console shows an "electronic patch module." The patch may have to be configured to assign a channel fader to a dimmer before anything will work.
If I were in your spot, I would be seeking manuals for the equipment. Ask if the venue has them filed away. Failing that, contact Emlight Design, Lite-trol, or any of the other vintage dimmer experts and see if they can turn up anything.
If I were in your spot, I would be seeking manuals for the equipment. Ask if the venue has them filed away. Failing that, contact Emlight Design, Lite-trol, or any of the other vintage dimmer experts and see if they can turn up anything.
I believe the electronic patch module was something you could add on to the board. Other add ins include an effects board, a remote board, and the Celebrity Plus add-on. I actually called Emlight Design last night and spoke with a gentleman there who was surprised to find out they did have the manual for the Celebrity board on file. He was nice enough to email me the manual but after reading through it I can't find a solution to my problem, though once it is working I am well prepared for anything haha. I checked my XLR4 pin control cable for continuity and pin to pin it seems fine. The only other thoughts the man from Emlight Design had was that the board might be broken or scrambled. I don't believe it is broken since everything lights up as it should, and I am even able to get it to show me errors when I press the buttons in incorrect formats. I'm going to pull the batteries in it today, in case there is any non standard settings or programming left in the memory and try to start over.
For the addressing, after reading through the manual, which had a section on connected to Playmates, it states that as many Playmates can be daisy chained together in no specific order. The DIP switches will control the ordering of them so I have the first set to 1 and the second set to 2 even though the second isn't connected in any what to the celebrity board.
This is so frustrating because everything should be working but I must have something wrong. If anyone can figure out whats wrong please let me know
That would be Maurice (aka CB's DimmerDotCom). Glad he was somewhat helpful.
As I said in my first post,
Sounds like you've ruled out the cabling. Let's further troubleshoot by moving the fuses, fuse caps, and control cable to the other pack, and addressing it to #1. If the console still won't control the dimmer pack, it's likely not outputting ECmux. I believe the only way to verify this is with an oscilloscope; I've never heard of an "ECmux tester" (or "AMX-tester" for that matter). So the console will probably have to be sent to Lite-Trol or similar for repair.
The paramedics have administered all the first aid possible; it's time to transport the patient to a hospital.
I'd look into renting/borrowing two 12x2.4 Sensor packs and an Express or Element console for the upcoming production, but temporarily wiring the packs into what WAS a permanent install will be quite a bit of work, and must be done by a professional.
The other possible altenative, which may or may not work, is to rent/borrow a DMX console AND a protocol converter that speaks ECmux, but it's unlikely one can be found in the DFW area for rental. Perhaps someone could chime in with local leads.
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Les lives in Dallas and may know the system or at least be able to troubleshoot from more of an advanced level. Also stagelight has a location in Dallas I would give them a call. They have lots of different protocol converters for rent. I have seen them connect dmx to some very old systems. They should be able to help you. They also have repair techs that may give you se solutions.
Another odd twist to this whole thing is that both control connectors have been replaced. The gender of the input has changed, and the output connector has an extra pin. I'm wondering if there's a chance that the packs were retrofitted for DMX? While the venue doesn't have a DMX console, maybe someone brought their own in. I can't think of why those mods would be made otherwise.
It might be worth a peek inside to see if there an additional, foreign circuit board in there. Be very careful to do so with no power applied. If there is a converter board in there, it may be a simple matter to bypass it, which would explain why the input connector was left four pin. Granted this is all a giant stretch, but then the whole situation is.
It might be worth a peek inside to see if there an additional, foreign circuit board in there. Be very careful to do so with no power applied. If there is a converter board in there, it may be a simple matter to bypass it, which would explain why the input connector was left four pin. Granted this is all a giant stretch, but then the whole situation is.
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