Element: Programming Moving head sequences for beginners!

[UndefinedGroupUK]

Hey!
Pretty soon I will be programming the lighting for our schools tallent show on an ETC Element 40. We have managed to swing it so we will have our standard 24 dimming channels and 4 colour scrollers but we are also hiring in to Martin MAC250 entours and a hazer, all exiting stuff for a small school who have only had 24 working dimmers for a month or so. However I'm still not sure how to program the show to make the movers flexible enough but integrated and working with the convensional's at the same time.

I'm planning on using two types of control for the show:

1) for the introduction video which we have decided will double up as a lights and sound show I'm going to pre program into a cue stack, because I will have a large amount of time to look at this as the video is virtually done and then I can set to work designing my lights, however I need your help, there is some points when I wish the program the movers to point at a certain position then go off for a moment before coming on in a new position, in the gap the conventional lights will most likely remain static, is there a quick way of programming the movers to change to the next position or do I have to have 6 cues (Go to first position, Open Shutter, Close Shutter, Move to second position, open shutter, close shutter and so on...) it seems like there must be a simpler way to do this otherwise larger shows with dozens of moving heads would have to be meticulously planned before programming could begin and cue lists would be ridiculously long? The reason I ask this is because the last time I used moving heads I simply programmed first cue in position with gobo colour etc, next cue position colour gobo etc, but when I changed between the two the colour changing, gobo wheel moving etc could be seen whilst the cue was changing.

2) for the acts I will not have time to program cues for each act so I have decided I'm going to program the 40 sub-masters as 20 standard settings for the conventional fixtures and scrollers and 20 for the moving heads, does anybody know if I can do this and if so how do you program a sub-master so it will only effect the output of certain fixtures or certain perimeters within the fixture, e.g. only the position of the mover or only the colour etc etc...

Thanks for your Help in advance and sorry for saying in a thousand words what could probably be be said in 10!

 

[techno89]

As for the subs you just set things the way you want on the console as you would a cue than hit [record] [sub] [#] [enter] I'll try to read the rest later and answer some more

 

[robartsd]

Some consoles are moving-head aware enough to automatically change the parameters in preparation for then next cue; but, even without such a console, I don't think you need the extra cues because closing the shutter can happen very quickly—the other changes from the cue will probably be unseen if the shutter is closed, so I would try programing cues that close the shutters and prep for the next position. But, I have absolutely no experience with moving lights—all my information comes from reading about them online. Have fun!

 

[derekleffew]

Some consoles are moving-head aware enough to automatically change the parameters in preparation for then next cue...

The Element features mark, aka automark, MIB, move-in-black, move while dark, move before bright.

 

[UndefinedGroupUK]

So how do I inform the desk that the only parameter of a moving head I wish to record to the sub master is say pan and tilt. So I can record various positions to a set of subs, various colours into a different set of subs various gobos etc etc and just choose live which ones I want to fit together? For example I could decide pan and tilt look 1 which is on sub 1 colour 4 on sub 9 gobo 8 which is on sub 24 etc etc... because surely if I move the light to where I want then record that into the sub it will record all the parameter values and hence alter them also when that sub is selected?

 

[derekleffew]

That's called masking, although I don't think Element uses that exact term, perhaps "selective store"? Someone will be along shortly to tell you exactly how.

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You also need to familiarize yourself with the concept of palette s.

 

[jglodeklights]

In order to record ML parameters to a submaster, the command line would be something like [CHAN X] [COLOR/BEAM/FOCUS/etc.] [RECORD][SUB N]

Basically the order in the command line is channels to select, parameter to select, record as sub, sub number to record as. Not sure how certain values will work fading up as I haven't worked in that way.

 

[UndefinedGroupUK]

In order to record ML parameters to a submaster, the command line would be something like [CHAN X] [COLOR/BEAM/FOCUS/etc.] [RECORD][SUB N]

Basically the order in the command line is channels to select, parameter to select, record as sub, sub number to record as. Not sure how certain values will work fading up as I haven't worked in that way.

Thanks! Just to clarify the various parameters will appear in the soft keys when a moving head's channel is selected because there isn't 'hard keys' for the various parameters? I would check but I don't have access to the desk until the day of the show so I want to make sure I know as much about this as possible

Thanks

 

[facethewolf]

I have an Element 60.
This board is great for lots of static lights. Handling moving lights is cumbersome as it involves a lot of mouseclicking. Do not count on doing any spur of the moment "busking" with moving lights. Everything requires extensive sequencing on one cue list. As long as you can accept that, the Element will work for moving lights.

On the top row of buttons next to "browser" is one that says "ML" for Moving Light control.
type the channel(s) of the moving lights and enter. ML will bring up a window along the bottom that show you all the parameters of that light.
when recording subs, "type channel number(s) (click on the parameter buttons in the window) record (bump button for sub x). Only the channels typed in(and subsequently the parameters specified) will be recorded to that sub. Not specifiying channels records ALL active channels to that sub.

Note: on this board there is a difference between board channel and DMX channel. A board channel is one fixture - which can occupy multiple DMX channels. Be sure your patching is good.

Previous post is right-this board relies heavily on position pallettes and color pallettes and gobo pallettes for moving lights.
If you have any other questions don't hesitate.

 

[UndefinedGroupUK]

Thank you for all your help everyone! The only other question I have is about the hazer which we have (a unique I believe) is there the facility to patch as a hazer or does the elements extremely extensive fixture library meet its match with a hazer, if not would I be correct to presume just patch as 2 dimmers (one for the fan and one for the pump)? Oh another question! programming scrollers on the Element, when I programmed the school production of Annie we found when fading between scenes the scrollers would move at the same fade times as the rest of the lights and would often go through lots of different colours to go to the next, so at the end of a solum scene when moonlight gel was used a 10 second fade would send the lights through some rather fun reds and pinks! I'm sure this can be solved using MIB commands, but I am still unsure of how to use these without multiple cues just to fade to black move scroller and so on...

Thanks again

 

[chausman]

Oh another question! programming scrollers on the Element, when I programmed the school production of Annie we found when fading between scenes the scrollers would move at the same fade times as the rest of the lights and would often go through lots of different colours to go to the next, so at the end of a solum scene when moonlight gel was used a 10 second fade would send the lights through some rather fun reds and pinks! I'm sure this can be solved using MIB commands, but I am still unsure of how to use these without multiple cues just to fade to black move scroller and so on...

Oh, that does sound like fun!

To avoid the "random colors", you could create two cues, and link them together, so that after the fade, it moved the scrollers (I know, the console is not moving the scrollers, but it's telling them to move). And, I might just make it like Q10.1 for your color change.

I don't remember how that works in element. And, the show I'm working on doesn't have scrollers so I can't check on the offline editor. Sorry.

 

[jglodeklights]

Properly patched on the Element, scrollers are the color portion of a channel. I know on the ION/EOS you can just type [ Record Cue X][Color] [Time] to alter the rate at which color parameters in a cue shift. You can also capture it for individual channels versus the entire cue. This unfortunately does not apply to the Element.

In order to do this on the Element, you need to add the additional command of [PART] after typing the Q number you wish to use.

Element uses AutoMark, which in playing with the offline editor, as I don't have the console in front of me at the moment, I was unable to find a way to disable it or apply manual marks, which I was able to do by disabling automark on the ION offline. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to mark color attributes. You will need to manually add a "move" cue and play with timing via wait and follow and be smart with intensities to get your scrollers to move color in a non obnoxious way.

 

[Les]

Uhh, Les,
I think you posted to the wrong thread. I was just about to respond to that other thread myself:neutral:

Yeah, leave it to a "smart" phone to screw that one up

Thanks!

 

[FlashBang]

If you haven't yet come across the ETC Element Tutorials on YouTube, here's the link. I found it to be very informative on all the basic processes and functions of the board. YouTube - ETCVideoLibrary's Channel

(if you're already relatively familiar with the console you can save a bit of time and start 5-6 videos in. if you have the time though, those ones might still mention something new to you).

 

[jglodeklights]

Oh, and I keep forgetting, but download the Element Offline and EOS family Keyboard hotkeys datasheet. Play with it to learn some bit about moving lights and programming conventions. Especially play with Moving Lights controls (Alt + F5) and the virtual keyboard.