Conventional Fixtures Gels - Choosing the appropriate filter for our setup.

[mradams]

I need some help choosing the appropriate Gels for our lighting setup. I work as the Technical Director at a H.O.W. but my experience is all in Audio so I'm just getting my feet wet with lighting.

Our Christmas production doesn't have any drama, its all band, soloists and a bit of some choir here and there plus dance. The music is very trans-siberian orchestra esque. and the dance is modern.

I've read some on McCandless method and I've designed the setup so that all main areas have a warm and a cool fixture (from 45degrees) and a back light. I also have washes that cover several of these areas.

The floor is black and half of the walls are black so I'm not going to get much reflected light to show color but we will be using a hazer.

Here is a my design as is minus the 4 Coemar iWash and 3 Coemar iSpot that we have. The iwashes are hung L&R up platform and L&R from the the center down platform truss L. I have one ispot hung in the center of the down platform truss and the other two will be sitting on the platform its self.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

[waynehoskins]

The McCandless Method is a valid method, but it's best at achieving a natural-daylight appearance. Good for a play set indoors in the '30s (when, by the way, it was developed), but to my mind lousy for music and dance.

So let's back up a step. Take the rules you read and learn how and why and when to break each of them. Think about color and angle. Do you need a front wash on everything? I would generally tend to put most fixtures overhead, in side/back/top kinds of positions. Dance in particular is all about sides.

 

[Kelite]

And welcome to the ControlBooth Mr. Adams! You've come to the right place for suggestions and ideas.
I commend you for doing your homework prior to posting a question. It's way easier to help someone who helps himself rather than throwing a tidbit of info to the crowd and begging for mercy!

As waynehoskins elaborated, breaking the rules depending upon your situation is a widely accepted practice. The lighting needs for your choirs and dancers may certainly call for plenty side/back/top lighting.

I'll step out of the way so others may also chime in-

(And once again, welcome to the ControlBooth!)

 

[mradams]

Thanks Waynehoskins and Keith. Being that this is for a H.O.W. we need the ability to have functional light each week. For this I rely almost entirely on the front washes and the back lights that are already in place. With the Lekos that I have I was wanting to to give the option to do either cool or warm for each area.

The books that I got from the Library are a bit old school in their approach (old copyright dates). Are there some good resources that I should be looking at?

Thanks!

 

[Les]

As far as doing homework I'm all for that. In fact that is what I'd thought I'd done by going over several books that I picked up at the Library. Are there some particular resources that you'd recommend?

Thanks!

I think Keith was commending you on already doing your homework; not recommending more, though it is always encouraged .

As for resources, I am way out of date. There is a great collaborative article on it though. I am unable to pull up a link right now, but I'm sure someone can pick up where I left off.

 

[MrsFooter]

Ah, so it's rock and roll you're looking at, with some modern dance thrown in. I will give you the same exact advice that was given to me before my first music show:

1) Go to your color room.
2) Pick the most obnoxious, crazy, saturated colors you can think of, one for each system.
3) Done.

Seriously, that's what I do. My rep music plot includes colors like R22, R27, R74, R49, and R73, but I've also mixed it up with some R312, R59, and a Congo just for funsies. It packs a serious punch. Maybe throw in a "normal" system of R33 or NC front wash if it's the type of show where people are going to be insisting on being able to count each one of Little Suzy's freckles, but myself I prefer to stick to NC specials for highlights.

But seriously, take this as opportunity to really throw your balls out there, have some fun!

 

[shiben]

Ah, so it's rock and roll you're looking at, with some modern dance thrown in. I will give you the same exact advice that was given to me before my first music show:

1) Go to your color room.
2) Pick the most obnoxious, crazy, saturated colors you can think of, one for each system.
3) Done.

Seriously, that's what I do. My rep music plot includes colors like R22, R27, R74, R49, and R73, but I've also mixed it up with some R312, R59, and a Congo just for funsies. It packs a serious punch. Maybe throw in a "normal" system of R33 or NC front wash if it's the type of show where people are going to be insisting on being able to count each one of Little Suzy's freckles, but myself I prefer to stick to NC specials for highlights.

But seriously, take this as opportunity to really throw your balls out there, have some fun!

This is a church tho, so you cant just throw out there something ok for Judas Priest and it works for the liturgical dancers... I would make sure to have the following colors in there: Red, Purple, Blue, Amber, N/C. Pink and Green Optional. Definitely need purple and blue tho...

 

[MrsFooter]

This is a church tho, so you cant just throw out there something ok for Judas Priest and it works for the liturgical dancers... I would make sure to have the following colors in there: Red, Purple, Blue, Amber, N/C. Pink and Green Optional. Definitely need purple and blue tho...

So...you mean Red like R27, Purple like R59, Blue like R74, Amber like R22, NC Pink like R33 and Green like R73*? So...exactly the colors I said? Fantastic, I'm glad we're on the same page!

To give credit where credit is due, I did totally miss the fact that this is a church venue, but I still don't see how that should change anything. From what I hear a lot of churches these days are putting up rigs that would give U2 a run for their money. Besides, the point of my post wasn't that the OP needs to use those exact colors, just that he shouldn't feel like he's relegated to variations on NC and not to be afraid of color. That's all.


*Yes, I realize that R73 isn't a green. However, I only use green sparingly and cautiously, as we all know what it does to anyone who's not super pale. So I stand by my R73.

 

[shiben]

So...you mean Red like R27, Purple like R59, Blue like R74, Amber like R22, NC Pink like R33 and Green like R73*? So...exactly the colors I said? Fantastic, I'm glad we're on the same page!

To give credit where credit is due, I did totally miss the fact that this is a church venue, but I still don't see how that should change anything. From what I hear a lot of churches these days are putting up rigs that would give U2 a run for their money. Besides, the point of my post wasn't that the OP needs to use those exact colors, just that he shouldn't feel like he's relegated to variations on NC and not to be afraid of color. That's all.


*Yes, I realize that R73 isn't a green. However, I only use green sparingly and cautiously, as we all know what it does to anyone who's not super pale. So I stand by my R73.

No I do agree with you, but you do however need to consider the venue and services when doing this sort of thing. I dont think I would choose as saturated colors, actually. I think churches with huge lighting rigs that make major concert tours feel undersized are a bit silly, but thats just me...

 

[mradams]

Thanks for all of the great advice!

Our church doesn't remotely compete with U2. We don't have "liturgical dancers" either (whatever that means). Being that our movers and our washes give me nearly everything I need for our typical setup I think going with some more saturated and varied colors for our lekos will work great for this upcoming production.

As far as transmission % works, at what point does it go from letting some saturated light through to not adding much? I'm not referring to back light btw.

 

[Footer]

As far as transmission % works, at what point does it go from letting some saturated light through to not adding much? I'm not referring to back light btw.

It really depends on scale. L119 (highly saturated blue) has an extremely low transmission, however it works rather well in a 1k fresnel or 1k par. However, the second you throw something that is no saturated or no color onstage, your shooting yourself in the foot and going to lose all color. This is why when you see 120k rigs used, there are either followspots or very tight specials to front light faces.

Something to always remember, put light where you want it and take it away from where you don't want it. You can use saturated colors, but tightly control everything that is not saturated.

 

[waynehoskins]

As far as transmission % works, at what point does it go from letting some saturated light through to not adding much? I'm not referring to back light btw.

It depends a lot on what the light needs to do and how much power is behind it. With 1K lamps, I'm generally not worried until it's like 2%T or less. However, %T values can be misleading, because sometimes gel that's less transmissive on the datasheet can actually appear more transmissive than others. Below 10% or so you do have to be careful: if you have even an R80 wash, an R60 frontlight system will just blow it away.

 

[shiben]

Thanks for all of the great advice!

Our church doesn't remotely compete with U2. We don't have "liturgical dancers" either (whatever that means). Being that our movers and our washes give me nearly everything I need for our typical setup I think going with some more saturated and varied colors for our lekos will work great for this upcoming production.

As far as transmission % works, at what point does it go from letting some saturated light through to not adding much? I'm not referring to back light btw.

So are you looking at adding saturated fronlight color or are you trying not to wash out your backlight? If your trying not to wash out your backs, the best options are either tighten in the focus or reduce intensity. If you want saturated frontlight, go with some very intense lights, 1K PARs or the like, so as you can actually see whoever is singing/dancing or doing whatever. You can totally get away with Congo Blue for the frontlight, but you need enough lights so as its intense enough you can see the people on stage...

Also Liturgical Dancers are just dancers that perform as part of a worship service, might be a regional term from W. Michigan, but thats what everyone who has them calls em there. Or perhaps your Christmas Production doesnt use them as a worship aid or whatever else they use...