We recently added a layer of masonite over our worn wooden deck and it looked great until the moisture returned to the area after the last arctic snap now it is bubbling in the middle of the full sheets and I was wondering if there is a way to rectify this without A) ripping it up and starting again or B) making it more screws than masonite. I am open to any and all suggestions. Please help.
Masonite flooring issue
- Thread starterTmeche
- Start date
What you're supposed to do when you install masonite like that is spray the faces of the masonite with water, then stack all of the sheets on top of each other and let them sit overnight. They will absorb the water and expand. Then the next day you install them when they're expanded so that they won't expand any larger once they're all in place.
This provides the expansion gap you're looking for. The best solution is to rip up the floor and start over, using the proper technique. The alternative is to trim the sides of each panel down just slightly to create the necessary gaps. Either way, you're doing a lot of work, but it shouldn't be that difficult to unscrew the masonite panels, expand them, and then put them down again.
This provides the expansion gap you're looking for. The best solution is to rip up the floor and start over, using the proper technique. The alternative is to trim the sides of each panel down just slightly to create the necessary gaps. Either way, you're doing a lot of work, but it shouldn't be that difficult to unscrew the masonite panels, expand them, and then put them down again.
Last edited:
RockMoniker
Member
I've never heard of that method. I've always left expansion gaps when laying themaso. Could you descripbe how much water you apply, both sides of a sheet? Are they immediately paintable afterwards, or do you need to let them dry for a time?
Normally we prepaint our new floors in the shop, then lay them down onstage with gaps(using a washer or a penny or somesuch).
Normally we prepaint our new floors in the shop, then lay them down onstage with gaps(using a washer or a penny or somesuch).
You just take a spray bottle and mist each side with it. It doesn't need to be a pool of water, but enough that it saturates the masonite pretty well.
The other methods mentioned like the penny or nickel method work well too. The water technique was what our theatrical consultants suggested to us when they were building our arts center, which ended up being a moot point because the architects went ahead and laid down a CDX floor, with wide enough gaps you could almost fall through and used nails with heat-activated glue that are popping up everywhere which we're having to replace with screws.
Now the floor is held together with Bond-o to cover the cracks and gaping chasms in it. We have a special place for those architects in our hearts now. They actually admitted that when they bid the project (which was their first theatre) they sat down to drinks and started flipping through a catalog and just started pointing at stuff.
Our Masonite floor bubbled due to the humidity a while back. We replaced the floor, allowing about 3/16 gap around the sheets. When that expanded and buckled our campus carpenter came back and ran a shallow cut between all the pieces to give it more expansion room. That may be your best bet right now. So we are at a gap distance of 3/16 inch plus the width of a saw blade. No problems since then.
We also used staples to tack our deck down rather than screws. And we cover the joints with Gaff tape before we painted the primer on. Gaff flexes as the Maso shifts where Bondo or other fillers can harden over time, which fills up the cracks so the boards don't have room to expand.
I am currently looking into putting a new covering on our stage. The stage is covered in plywood and has been painted, sanded down, re-painted again and again over the years. I am open to any/all suggestions on what to use. The three things that I have already had suggested to me are Masonite, Halex, or a low-rising indoor/outdoor style carpet. Would love to hear from anyone with experience with these materials, or any other ideas on the subject. Thanks!
jglodeklights
Well-Known Member
I would not recommend low rising carpet except as something to keep in stock to place above the main floor for pathways backstage to dead sound of show shoes.
Just plywood isn't ideal because of the grain and overall lack of smoothness. You will need a plywood subfloor of some sort, though, under Masonite.
Masonite is the standard for most flooring purposes due to being not horrendously expensive, relatively durable, being a good paint surface and providing a natural sound when walked upon.
When purchasing the Masonite, I highly recommend ignoring 1/8" completely for reasons of durability and being able to be taken up and put back down without shooting screws completely through. Additionally, get dual tempered, meaning both sides smooth, so that when one side is just to textured or is peeling from crappy paint, you can simply flip it. Both sides should be painted prior to installation for best results in regards to expansion and bowing (remember, it is a paper based product and like paper will shrink after being wet). I recommend a using the same type of exterior primer, such as MAB SeaShore or KILZ on both sides, and then painting one side with a flat black. Again, I'm partial to MAB SeaShore. Others like the Glidden flat black. Some people like Rosco ToughPrime, I think it's ugly. You can just paint it black on both sides with black MAB SeaShore Flat Paint or equivalent. I prefer priming first.
When installing remember to leave expansion space between boards, and counter sink each screw. Standard wood/drywall screws are fine. Don't get too long of a screw. 1 Inchers are fine.
Just plywood isn't ideal because of the grain and overall lack of smoothness. You will need a plywood subfloor of some sort, though, under Masonite.
Masonite is the standard for most flooring purposes due to being not horrendously expensive, relatively durable, being a good paint surface and providing a natural sound when walked upon.
When purchasing the Masonite, I highly recommend ignoring 1/8" completely for reasons of durability and being able to be taken up and put back down without shooting screws completely through. Additionally, get dual tempered, meaning both sides smooth, so that when one side is just to textured or is peeling from crappy paint, you can simply flip it. Both sides should be painted prior to installation for best results in regards to expansion and bowing (remember, it is a paper based product and like paper will shrink after being wet). I recommend a using the same type of exterior primer, such as MAB SeaShore or KILZ on both sides, and then painting one side with a flat black. Again, I'm partial to MAB SeaShore. Others like the Glidden flat black. Some people like Rosco ToughPrime, I think it's ugly. You can just paint it black on both sides with black MAB SeaShore Flat Paint or equivalent. I prefer priming first.
When installing remember to leave expansion space between boards, and counter sink each screw. Standard wood/drywall screws are fine. Don't get too long of a screw. 1 Inchers are fine.
Ric
Active Member
We had our stage floor replaced/recovered 1.5 years ago, due to the masonite flooring originally having been secured with nails. The nails were constantly lifting due to the heavy floor use, especially by dancers.
Originally the engineer suggested we go with plywood but after having that fitted and seeing the result we insisted on going back to the masonite with screws. That was a costly exercise but has given us a great floor.
Ours is tempered masonite 6.5mm thick with counter sunk screws.
Masonite Tempered - Masonite Hardboard - Building Products, MDF, Plywood & Benchtop Surface Materials - Gunnersens Australia
It was watered down before fitting to ensure that expansion wasn't an issue.
We paint it 3 monthly, or as needed, with a water based matte black plastic paint.
Originally the engineer suggested we go with plywood but after having that fitted and seeing the result we insisted on going back to the masonite with screws. That was a costly exercise but has given us a great floor.
Ours is tempered masonite 6.5mm thick with counter sunk screws.
Masonite Tempered - Masonite Hardboard - Building Products, MDF, Plywood & Benchtop Surface Materials - Gunnersens Australia
It was watered down before fitting to ensure that expansion wasn't an issue.
We paint it 3 monthly, or as needed, with a water based matte black plastic paint.
michaelburgoyne
Member
I didn't notice any comment in this discussion regarding screw spacing, we require 1'-0" on center around the perimeter and through the center of each sheet to reduce warping. Yes, you read that correctly, (45) screws per 4x8 panel. This spacing is specific to 1/4-inch tempered Masonite with a 3/32-inch expansion gap on all sides. As noted, 1/8" Masonite should not be considered for this application.
For even greater durability we prefer 3/4" Plyron which is plywood with a factory laminated hardboard (Masonite) layer on the finished sides. The material cost is greater, and it's not available at your local big-box store, but for new construction the installation cost is less than 1/4" Masonite because you eliminate a layer of subfloor and the fasteners can be 2'-0" on center. Plyron is very stable but will be more expensive to replace when you have a damaged panel.
http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Tempered%20Plyron%20Prod%20Lit%20-%2011-07%20.pdf
For even greater durability we prefer 3/4" Plyron which is plywood with a factory laminated hardboard (Masonite) layer on the finished sides. The material cost is greater, and it's not available at your local big-box store, but for new construction the installation cost is less than 1/4" Masonite because you eliminate a layer of subfloor and the fasteners can be 2'-0" on center. Plyron is very stable but will be more expensive to replace when you have a damaged panel.
http://www.olypanel.com/common/pdf/Tempered%20Plyron%20Prod%20Lit%20-%2011-07%20.pdf
Our Masonite deck is twenty years old and I have never replaced a pannel.
I laid the floor myself making sure of the proper gaps between the sheets.
I did not wet the floor before laying it down, and I have never had a problem.
We had to lay a masonite floor because the stupid Architect had specified a Spruce
plank floor. Spruce is a soft wood that splinters easily and gaff tape peals up the wood.
Not a good floor for dancers in bare feet! It was a liability issue for us.
We laid down 5/8 T&G plywood over the Spruce deck, then 1/4 Masonite over that.
It is a sprung floor which is great for dance, and with the depth of wood below the
Masonite we can safely screw into the deck when we have to. The screw holes practically dissappear when screws are removed. I have probably painted this floor
fourty or more times. Great floor. No problems.
I laid the floor myself making sure of the proper gaps between the sheets.
I did not wet the floor before laying it down, and I have never had a problem.
We had to lay a masonite floor because the stupid Architect had specified a Spruce
plank floor. Spruce is a soft wood that splinters easily and gaff tape peals up the wood.
Not a good floor for dancers in bare feet! It was a liability issue for us.
We laid down 5/8 T&G plywood over the Spruce deck, then 1/4 Masonite over that.
It is a sprung floor which is great for dance, and with the depth of wood below the
Masonite we can safely screw into the deck when we have to. The screw holes practically dissappear when screws are removed. I have probably painted this floor
fourty or more times. Great floor. No problems.
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
I'm pretty sure it is... Considering I can go to home depot or Menards, or Lowes and pick up 30-50 4x8 sheets of maso...
DuckJordan
Touring IATSE Member
Well... I didn't realize its a brand name but the board that they manufactured or a similar is still available. I'll try and find the technical name for it.
Tempered Hardboard.
Hi guys,
I hope you don't mind me dropping in... I don't work in theater but my fiancée wants to install a Masonite floor in a bedroom of our house. Sounds like you guys have some experience here.
Right now the floor is bare concrete and the room is 10'x12'. The plan is to cut 120 1' x 1' 1/4" Masonite squares, stain them for a leathery look and then seal them with varathane, and install them with either screws or adhesive.
Neither of us know the first thing about what we're doing. We like the look of screws in each corner but I'm worried screwing into concrete isn't a beginner level project, and as a know-nothing remodeler I'm not thrilled about boring holes into the foundation of the house. Should we stick with an adhesive instead?
Whether we go with screws or adhesive, considering we live in ultra-dry Las Vegas, we're sealing the Masonite with Varathane, and we're using 1'x1' squares, do we even need to worry about expansion at all? Gaps may be fine for theater but not for a bedroom... is it a realistic goal that we could get the floor smooth and flush?
I hope you don't mind me dropping in... I don't work in theater but my fiancée wants to install a Masonite floor in a bedroom of our house. Sounds like you guys have some experience here.
Right now the floor is bare concrete and the room is 10'x12'. The plan is to cut 120 1' x 1' 1/4" Masonite squares, stain them for a leathery look and then seal them with varathane, and install them with either screws or adhesive.
Neither of us know the first thing about what we're doing. We like the look of screws in each corner but I'm worried screwing into concrete isn't a beginner level project, and as a know-nothing remodeler I'm not thrilled about boring holes into the foundation of the house. Should we stick with an adhesive instead?
Whether we go with screws or adhesive, considering we live in ultra-dry Las Vegas, we're sealing the Masonite with Varathane, and we're using 1'x1' squares, do we even need to worry about expansion at all? Gaps may be fine for theater but not for a bedroom... is it a realistic goal that we could get the floor smooth and flush?
I think it's realistic. You might want to consider, however, laying a layer of Rosin paper or a similar product onto the floor then laying in the masonite "tiles" with a mastic of some sort. Even in Dry LV you will get moisture either wicking through , or being drawn through concrete. Remember all that water they used to make the concrete doesn't go away most of it is still there and it escapes at a constant rate for centuries. I think if you study the way a "pergo" floor is laid you'll see how this technique could work for you. Those floors essentially float on a polystyrene material.
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