new to band lighting and need advice from experts

One MIDI control surface that seems fairly well thought of is the AKAI APC-20/-40/-60 (a 60 is a 20 and a 40 with the sides taken off, bolted to an aluminum bottom plate :)).

They have lots of mappable buttons and knobs to go with the faders.

I can't tell you what's compatible with them, except I know QLC+ (which I plan to play with but haven't yet) is.
 
One MIDI control surface that seems fairly well thought of is the AKAI APC-20/-40/-60 (a 60 is a 20 and a 40 with the sides taken off, bolted to an aluminum bottom plate :)).

They have lots of mappable buttons and knobs to go with the faders.

I can't tell you what's compatible with them, except I know QLC+ (which I plan to play with but haven't yet) is.


I used the APC20 for over a year with Compu Show. It worked great except for one row of buttons designed for special controls in Ableton software (the software this series of midi controllers was designed specifically for, APC = Ableton Performance Controller) did not work and the one continuous rotary knob didn't work well. Because of the fact that Compu Show doesn't respond well to the continuous rotary knobs I wouldn't recommend the APC40 as all it really adds is a bunch of knobs and one cross fader.

The only other issue to be aware of with Compu Show software is that it can only have one function per midi channel. This means that if you hooked up two midi consoles that use the same midi channels (i.e. the APC 20 and APC40) you would only really get use out of one for the shared channel faders, buttons etc.. I used the APC20 and a Nano Kontrol 2 together but the channel 8 fader of the Nano Kontrol 2 used the same midi channel as the APC20's first fader so I basically lost one fader due to conflict. I upgraded to a Elation Midicon controller for that reason, the Midicon has two segments of the board that have 16 pages of different midi channels each allowing me a ton of programming options on one console.

For their price range, the APC series by Akai are great midi controllers. They are built sturdy and are designed to take a pretty good beating. If someone were to consider the APC40 for their software I would recommend making sure that the continuous rotary knobs function well with the software you plan to use, if not there isn't any real significant advantage buying the APC40 over the APC20.
 
Yeah; I can understand how there might be compatibility problems; I assume there's some MIDI control mapper software you could find somewhere that would allow you to mix and match between a control surface and a software package.
 
Yeah; I can understand how there might be compatibility problems; I assume there's some MIDI control mapper software you could find somewhere that would allow you to mix and match between a control surface and a software package.
That's a good point, I never thought to look for a software that would be able to change the midi channels of one of my interfaces. One of the great things about midi is that it is very versatile and, if you know what you're doing, you can often find creative solutions to get around such problems. Keeping that in mind, you could look at a larger variety of midi controllers to use with lighting software. However, if you don't want to have to re-map anything, make sure to look into what midi controller works best with your software right out of the box.
 
Here's my professional advice, if you want to be taken seriously DON'T USE SOFTWARE! I've seen countless rigs with tons of potential ruined by poorly programmed scenes from a PC controller, it really limits you during the show, and looks repetitive if you keep using the same scenes. Also doing things on the fly is very impractical. The only way I could see it working is if your show never changes, that way you can run it on a Q 2 Q basis.

Also you should look into putting those par cans back into your rig and using them as spots or blinders. Nothing beats old fashion incandescent light, looks very pro.
keep your LEDS for you're wash.

Personally I'm using an ETC Smartfade 48/96 is about $1400 new, but lets you patch all your dmx channels to whatever fader you want, has 96 channels, 12 pages of 48 presets. and has DMX in, also has a MiDi option if you're into that.

But if you do decide to do software, please program fade times into you're scenes, nothing worse than watching scenes change with 0 fade times, looks very amateur.
 
Ok, sure, what the heck; I'll dive in.

Did you really think that even your Smartfade isn't using, um, software?

The upscale consoles, in fact, are using software *running on Windows* (though it is likely Embedded Windows). So I think you're going to have to make your distinction a bit clearer.

That said, I gather it's a real pain to do moving lights on a Smartfade (except maybe the M's which are adapted to it -- though I do not know how well).

And, for the record: this is a forum, where all the interchange is in written English. Getting the grammar, spelling and punctuation wrong also "looks very amateur".

Your advice seems actually to parse as "don't try to do band lighting with a prebuilt show-sequence, and if you do, make sure the default fade time isn't 0 seconds"; would that be it?
 
Ok, sure, what the heck; I'll dive in.

Did you really think that even your Smartfade isn't using, um, software?

The upscale consoles, in fact, are using software *running on Windows* (though it is likely Embedded Windows). So I think you're going to have to make your distinction a bit clearer.

That said, I gather it's a real pain to do moving lights on a Smartfade (except maybe the M's which are adapted to it -- though I do not know how well).

And, for the record: this is a forum, where all the interchange is in written English. Getting the grammar, spelling and punctuation wrong also "looks very amateur".

Your advice seems actually to parse as "don't try to do band lighting with a prebuilt show-sequence, and if you do, make sure the default fade time isn't 0 seconds"; would that be it?
Yeah, the smartfade does have pc based software that it can connect to for patching and so on, but that's different because I still have a physical console for controlling my lights. I'm not saying that all software is bad I'm saying that not having hands on instant control of your fixtures impairs your ability. However If you were to have something like a MiDi fader board to control you're software, that's a little different. I mean lets be real, clicking through scenes with a mouse or hotkeys is not how lights are meant to be run.

P.S. Sorry if my grammar is not up to PAR64, I sucked in English class and that's why I do lights.
 
<chuckle> fair enuf.

My point was that it seemed that A) you were in fact saying all software was bad and B) you weren't taking into account that all current generation hard surface light boards are running on software.

And I don't mean external plugins like the ones that go into a SmartFade via USB.

What you are saying is "don't try to busk with a board that doesn't have faders and bump buttons... and I think that's pretty much received wisdom around here already.

And I don't have a quibble it. But, particularly when talking to newbies, it is important to get the details right. Especially on a forum, where your answers will hang around until the end of time. :)

Sent from my SPH-L720
 
Here's my professional advice, if you want to be taken seriously DON'T USE SOFTWARE! I've seen countless rigs with tons of potential ruined by poorly programmed scenes from a PC controller, it really limits you during the show, and looks repetitive if you keep using the same scenes. Also doing things on the fly is very impractical. The only way I could see it working is if your show never changes, that way you can run it on a Q 2 Q basis.

Also you should look into putting those par cans back into your rig and using them as spots or blinders. Nothing beats old fashion incandescent light, looks very pro.
keep your LEDS for you're wash.

Personally I'm using an ETC Smartfade 48/96 is about $1400 new, but lets you patch all your dmx channels to whatever fader you want, has 96 channels, 12 pages of 48 presets. and has DMX in, also has a MiDi option if you're into that.

But if you do decide to do software, please program fade times into you're scenes, nothing worse than watching scenes change with 0 fade times, looks very amateur.

I have to disagree with you about the software. Jay Ashworth is correct about pretty much all DMX lighting consoles using software, but I believe you are referring more to using software on a personal computer. First off, I have been using computer lighting software for over four years, originally Compu Live software which I upgraded to Compu Show about two years ago. They are certainly not the best DMX solutions on the market, but they have worked very well for me. Over the past six months I have been learning the Wholehog 2 and the Road Hog 4 consoles. These are very well thought out lighting consoles that offer a lot of options. There are some small features they have that I absolutely love, namely the "fan" option, that the software I use doesn't have. However, both consoles have limitations that I don't find with my software. The biggest thing that I like about my software is that I can program and operate on the fly with little to no hassles.

I often run lights for clubs when they bring in a big EDM artist. I have to run lights for five hours straight to whatever songs the opening djs and the headliner decide to play. They don't offer set lists, alot of times they don't even know what they are going to play until they "feel out" the crowd. You say programming on the fly is impractical, but for my purposes it's absolutely necessary to be able to react to a sudden change in the music and adjust the lights as I see fit at that moment. Not everything is on the fly. I have all of my color combinations, positions, and basic fx programmed, but being able to pull those elements together in a heartbeat allows me to create different scenes on the go. If I need to create a new look I haven't programmed I can do so blind and once programmed I can grab it quickly and easily. As for the fade times, I often do snap changes using LED lights. Again, I am running lights to dance music and the quick change when timed correctly can make a huge impact. There is nothing more satisfying to me as a LD then when I change the look on the beat and hear the crowd go nuts. It is in fact the snap change that gets their attention. I would prefer a smooth fade for a band going from one song to the next, but for a DJ who is spinning right from one song into the next a quick change makes a huge difference.

Lastly, as I have mentioned in a few posts in this thread, I do recommend a midi controller to give you some hands on control. The software I use can work well without a midi controller, you can launch scenes using the keys on the keyboard, but things like faders for dimming and speed controls would have to use a mouse or a midi controller, the midi controller is much easier for that. All in all I just want to point out that some of the statements made in the above quote are neither fair nor accurate. You have to keep in mind that not everyone on this forum is a theatre LD or a touring concert LD. What works in one situation may not always work in another. And as far as DMX controllers go, some are clearly more limited than others, but if you are determined and creative enough you can accomplish alot with even the most basic lighting controller.
 
Right, and for a DJ PC based software can be a perfect solution. It really all comes down to the personal preference of the LD. The part about the no set list and feeling out the crowd fits my situation 100%, even though I'm with the same band 4-6 days a week. I guess coming from the theatre world into live music, the physical console has always been my preference.
 
For a conventional show I'd love a smartfade minus the fact that you only have 4 chases per page and there is a bit more button pressing than I would like to change the BPM. However for a show with Intels I'll take Chaymsys (still learning) or Freestyler (I've exhausted it's capabilities) any day. I think one thing people overlook a lot when talking about PCs running lighting is that you do have a physical interface. The keyboard. Not faders, but the keyboard works well enough for me.
In Freestyler I setup a cuelist for every attribute of my LED Pars and Intimidator Scan 300s. Then I put the cue window with the speed controls on my second screen and adjust the fades with it. I assign flashes to the number pad and the qwerty keyboard gets assigned different cues/chases. It gets the job done pretty well.
I'm not sure how I'm gonna do this with Chamsys. I think you can use keyboard keys to activate things but I hope to be getting a touchscreen or an all in one touchscreen laptop soon so I probably won't bother trying to figure it out.
 
Buy an Enttec DMX Pro dongle and hook it up to a laptop. Look on Enttec's site for all the vendors software applications it works with and try them all and find which one you like best. All these applications will work with one universe of dmx for just the cost of the dongle ($158). It may not be as perfect as a control surface or as fast but you can make great programs and lay things out the way you want which whatever software you chose. I have been doing this with Chamsys software for years and things have worked very well even when running stuff on the fly. As far as MyDMX, it is the bigest crap software I've ever used and I wouldn't waste my money on it. Start with the Enttec and as least you have a decent piece of harware for whatever software you chose. That's as low cost as I would think you can get. ALso if you want for a little more money you can get the PRO Mk2 for $220, it's the neweer updated and more powerfull version of the DMX Pro but either will do.
 
Buy an Enttec DMX Pro dongle and hook it up to a laptop. Look on Enttec's site for all the vendors software applications it works with and try them all and find which one you like best. All these applications will work with one universe of dmx for just the cost of the dongle ($158). It may not be as perfect as a control surface or as fast but you can make great programs and lay things out the way you want which whatever software you chose. I have been doing this with Chamsys software for years and things have worked very well even when running stuff on the fly. As far as MyDMX, it is the bigest crap software I've ever used and I wouldn't waste my money on it. Start with the Enttec and as least you have a decent piece of harware for whatever software you chose. That's as low cost as I would think you can get. ALso if you want for a little more money you can get the PRO Mk2 for $220, it's the neweer updated and more powerfull version of the DMX Pro but either will do.

What is the benefit of the Mk2 over the regular DMX pro? I can see the different connector and it seems to be able to run 2 universes, although it seems that it is limited on 3rd party software. Is there any other difference I should know about?
 

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