On Stage Monitors

At my high school we have a respectable theatre. One problem we always have is that we can't judge the stage volume of the monitors. From the mixer, if we even put them in 1/4 of a turn on the monitor knob, it is WAY too loud. How can I more efficiently set monitor levels instead of yelling at someone on stage? (usually someone who doesn't know how loud it needs to be). I feel like this should be a simple fix.

Some extra information:
Midas 320 mixer
Nexia SP
3 AMPS (One for Right/Left) (One for center/center) (One for Monitor 1/Monitor 2)
1 Crown Bass Amp (Subs, obviously)
 
You probably need to re-do your gain structure and turn down the amps feeding your wedges a bit. As far as setting monitor levels, that is really dependent on the artists onstage. You give as much as the artist wants and you have head room to give. There is really no way to set levels onstage without a cue wedge so you can listen to exactly what the person onstage is hearing.
 
Don't you take your wirelesses to the stage and set volumes before you put them on the actors? There is no magic number to set, you have to set each mic in the monitors, no different than in the house.
 
What happens is everything gets set fine. Everybody is happy. Then the day goes on and someone says it needs to be louder, and then it gets turned up and gets louder and louder and then we stop everything and get levels AGAIN. This happens around 3 or 4 times until we give up on it. What I want is like a DB meter so I can look and say, "Hey! Look at that, they are WAYY to loud" without having to run downstairs. All the mics are the same so everything is always (as it should be) identical on the board, meaning that the gain is approximately the same on most channels.

My main problem with my current setup is that we have NEVER put the monitor levels past half on any channel for ANYTHING. Its kind of hard to explain but to get from too quiet to way too loud is about one notch on the monitor knob. I would like for it to be more controllable, even if that means I get less volume on stage. When outside shows come in, the monitors get so loud that we can kill the house and still hear everything. I know that it shouldn't have to be that loud.
 
If you have the authority to do so, you might want to go to the outputs of the amps for your monitors and turn down the gains so that you've got more headroom to play with on your mixer.

As for guesstimating volume, get friendly with your meters. On my LS9 mixer I know what my VU meters are telling me and what that means. It's not perfect but it gets me close. For example, I know -18 on the VU's for my house mix about where amps start to clip. I also know (roughly) what a good pre-fade mic level should be.

On an off-day, setup a couple monitors and find the output level you like, then find what your VU's read for those outputs. Write that level down and then you know each time that you do a setup what you need to see on your VU's to be in the ballpark.
 
While I agree that turning down the amp levels is likely a good solution it does assume that the rest of the system gain structure is correct. One thing that could be related to that, or that may be another option, is that the Nexia SP allows you to set the analog output level associated with a 0dBFS digital signal independently for each output with options of 0dBFS equating to 0, +6, +12, +18 or +24dBu at the analog output. I don't know your amp's sensitivity or maximum input level but if the output of the Nexia SP is set for 0dBFS being +24dBu then that is likely much greater level than the amp's sensitivity so the level controls on the amp may need to be turned down.

Added: I realized that what I postedis probably just a bunch of numbers to some, so maybe it would help to explain it a bit more.

For a digital signal the levels are defined in dBFS (Full Scale) where 0dBFS is the highest level that can be represented. When converting from analog to digital (A/D) or digital to analog (D/A) one of the steps in that conversion is defining the relationship between the analog levels and the corresponding digital levels. A common way of doing this is to equate the maximum peak digital signal level (0dBFS) to a maximum peak analog signal level. In many devices this conversion is fixed and you have no choice, but because devices like DSPs are often inserted between other devices that may have varying maximum analog input and output levels, some DSP devices let you adjust the relationship in order to better match their input and output levels to the connected devices.

As an example, if you are sending a mixer output to a DSP and the mixer has a maximum analog output level of +24dBu, then you would ideally want the DSP input A/D to be set such that +24dBu equals 0dBFS. But if the maximum output of the mixer is +18dBu then that would essentially be wasting 6dB of headroom and S/N, which could be aided by setting the A/D conversion at the DSP input such that +18dBu equals 0dBFS.

This can become quite relevant to amplifier inputs as while amplifiers typically accept input levels of +20dBu or more, they often have a sensitivity, which is the input signal level that provides full output, that is much lower with a sensitivity of +3dBu to +7dBu (1.1V to 1.7V) being pretty common. The options for input signal levels that are greater than the amplifier's sensitivity are to attenuate the signal at the amplifier input, which is what the amp's level controls effectively do, or to attenuate the analog signal right before the amplifier, perhaps at the output of the device before the amplifier.

In this case, if the DSP is set for a maximum output level of +24dBu, that is set such that a 0dBFS digital signal equals +24dBu at the analog output, then you could easily require significant attenuation at the amplifier. But if the DSP outputs were set so that 0dBFS equalled +6dBu or +12dBu at the analog output then you still can get full amplifier output but without needing as much attenuation at the amplifier.

One negative to this approach is that any clipping is much more likely to happen in the signal chain before the amplifier and some people prefer to have the amplifiers clip first. Just another example of there being different approaches with pros and cons for different situations.
 
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Sometimes dealing with performers and their monitors can be tough , I once had a choir concert where they wanted so much monitor volume , that it was louder than I wanted the volume in the house . I ended up pulling everything out of the house and what the audience heard was through the monitors .
 
Sometimes dealing with performers and their monitors can be tough , I once had a choir concert where they wanted so much monitor volume , that it was louder than I wanted the volume in the house . I ended up pulling everything out of the house and what the audience heard was through the monitors .

Sadly, that is a regular routine for me...

Also learn the fine art of adjusting without doing anything.

Everyone that I work with knows I do that when they are at the board with me, but once they go downstairs, they never remember that I treat people that way. The band instructor never gets what he asks for like he thinks he does for both sound and lights (He has run lights for a show and he is color blind...I just find that hilarious).
 
My question would be why are the mics in the wedges in a theater production? All that does - besides screw up the sound in the house - is reinforce to the performers the idea that there is no need to project (or worse, it encourages them to be wimpy lest they think they are too loud).
 
The best trick I have found, is to pull the masters down for the monitors, the slowly bring them up and get them to tell you to stop when they are loud enough.

The silence will reset the performers ears, and 90% of the time, you'll end up with the monitors right where you started.


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