Patching Unknown Fixtures

Lightitup

Lightitup

Member
Hello, all. We are about to start renting our space out to a church, and I am trying to patch a few of their fixtures into my ETC Eos. The fixtures are generic, with "Professional Show Lighting" on the side of them. They are movers. Any advice on how to patch them would be helpful. I cannot find a profile for them.
 
Brentgi said:
Pictures?
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https://www.google.com/search?q=pro...AUICygC&biw=1440&bih=826#imgrc=bgVPpyaJlBSSPM:


proxy.php
 
Whoops read that wrong. If that's the case grab your backup board or something you can benchtest the fixture and figure out the map yourself. Then pop it into the editor and make your fixture.
 
[edit]
http://www.vesitianlighting.com/info.asp?act_id=201375192825&id=4139 Email them or click the alibaba link and post an email to the seller and ask for the patch.

if you're in a hurry than put it in 16 channel mode and give yourself 17 dimmers to play with. Often I see these Chinese fixtures use 1 more channel than they say. and then get out the old pen and paper and write down what each fader does. note that some faders will do more than one thing at different percentages. Than go back and build a new fixture profile.

Also, a lot of these Chinese Direct lights are based on Elation and Chauvet lighting so try patching it to an Elation Pro Lighting PLATINUM-SEVEN on 24ch mode or a Robe Robin Actor 6 in 16 channel, maybe you'll get lucky.
 
ChrisB_SanDiego said:
[edit]
http://www.vesitianlighting.com/info.asp?act_id=201375192825&id=4139 Email them or click the alibaba link and post an email to the seller and ask for the patch.

if you're in a hurry than put it in 16 channel mode and give yourself 17 dimmers to play with. Often I see these Chinese fixtures use 1 more channel than they say. and then get out the old pen and paper and write down what each fader does. note that some faders will do more than one thing at different percentages. Than go back and build a new fixture profile.

Also, a lot of these Chinese Direct lights are based on Elation and Chauvet lighting so try patching it to an Elation Pro Lighting PLATINUM-SEVEN on 24ch mode or a Robe Robin Actor 6 in 16 channel, maybe you'll get lucky.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help.
Best I can tell is that it is a 12 CH. And it looks a helluva lot like a Robe. Just can't find which one.
 
Maybe it won't for everyone or every time, but as the "generic" brand direct from China fixtures become more affordable and higher in quality, a lot of rental houses in my area are adding them to their inventory and slowly getting rid of brand names... seems almost too often I get a delivery and ask the rental company what is that. they say, just patch it as a Sharpy, etc... so I'm personally finding that most of the fixtures also copy the same patch. So for me, it would save me having to create a custom patch each time if I could just search by address count than it would save me a lot of time.

Right now, when I get a generic fixture, the first thing I do is throw it in the lowest channel count it has, and then go through the dropdowns in patch to find something similar. If the patch doesn't fit in 12ch mode, the 16ch mode of the same fixtures patch usually does... it's still time-consuming but not near as time-consuming as building it from scratch. especially if I'm dealing with multiple types of fixtures.

Plus if it's close enough, you just copy the profile and modify the values that aren't right. still a lot faster than from scratch.

The reality is, in 90% of the tours we see in our venue. they're using Chinese fixtures...
 
ChrisB_SanDiego said:
Right now, when I get a generic fixture, the first thing I do is throw it in the lowest channel count it has, and then go through the dropdowns in patch to find something similar. If the patch doesn't fit in 12ch mode, the 16ch mode of the same fixtures patch usually does... it's still time-consuming but not near as time-consuming as building it from scratch. especially if I'm dealing with multiple types of fixtures.

Plus if it's close enough, you just copy the profile and modify the values that aren't right. still a lot faster than from scratch.

The reality is, in 90% of the tours we see in our venue. they're using Chinese fixtures...
Click to expand...

Wow, that sounds truly horrible. The cynic in me would simply say that it is their (the tours') problem to figure that out if they don't have proper documentation or care to support the fixture manufacturers that did spend the R&D money that the generic fixture just ripped off.

That may sound harsh but I feel that as an industry the more we continue to just "accept" the ripoffs the more power we give to those companies that are buying those fixtures and undermining the original designer/manufacturer.

but maybe that's just me.....
 
I agree completely with Chris. There is a generic section on my console already, but there are no moving fixtures in the generic. You can also message ETC, and they will build the profile for you. I could build it, but I was looking for a quick fix. The church spent a ton of money updating lighting. These Chinese fixtures are just what they had left from their own location. The new ones are Chauvet, which is now making some quality stuff. I'm just glad that they upgraded it at all. They built my space less than two years ago. It is for a school , but the one thing the architects didn't listen to me on was the lighting. They spent a ton of money (they wanted to keep the lighting in house, though) but but all MiroCubes, which have been a nightmare. Expensive boxes with no diffusion.
 
bclighting said:
The cynic in me would simply say that it is their (the tours') problem to figure that out if they don't have proper documentation or care to support the fixture manufacturers that did spend the R&D money that the generic fixture just ripped off.
Click to expand...

I agree. If it were me, I'd put it on the church tech to get you the correct profile specs.

bclighting said:
That may sound harsh but I feel that as an industry the more we continue to just "accept" the ripoffs the more power we give to those companies that are buying those fixtures and undermining the original designer/manufacturer.
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But I disagree on this point. I believe there are simple economic principles at work here. And I know that I'm going to have someone argue with me. But I believe that the Chinese fixture market may help drive down some of the prices for name brand fixtures. IMHO, I think that there are certain companies that tout their LED products as being affordable (I'm reminded of a tagline that goes something like 'don't settle for bad LED lighting' and 'no venue is too small for good lighting'), when in reality they are still out of reach for small venues... especially when you have decent products coming from other names like Chauvet or Elation.

Personally, I'm not going to risk my money on a knock off fixture with no support and pretty much no warranty, but I still think other brands have a ways to go in the 'affordability' category. Just my 2¢ FWIW.
 
I continue to be amazed that LX control companies like Avolites, ChamSys etc actually bother making fixture personalities for all these Chinese cheapo lights. Whats in it for them? I guess it does mean that we can rock up to some weird venue in Colombia that has fixtures I have never seen or heard of before - I may be able to get them going.
One time I was given a rig full of Pearl River movers in Medellin. At least PR has the grace not to only copy a MAC3 (but call it a PR 2000 SuperSpot Lux or whatever) but to also state that the actual Martin personality files will work for them.

I first came across PR stuff in Bolivia several years ago and it was shocking then, but the new stuff is actually quite good. They may lining up on the bottom of the hierarchy to replace ADJ as they move up the ladder to replace Chauvet :)
 
Brentgi said:
IMHO, I think that there are certain companies that tout their LED products as being affordable (I'm reminded of a tagline that goes something like 'don't settle for bad LED lighting' and 'no venue is too small for good lighting'), when in reality they are still out of reach for small venues... especially when you have decent products coming from other names like Chauvet or Elation.
Click to expand...

When a company initially has LED lights in the $2500+ range, adding a family of lights in the $600 to $1200 range is affordable. In this perspective.

Granted $600 is still very steep for many people, but not as bad as $2500+
 
bclighting said:
Wow, that sounds truly horrible. The cynic in me would simply say that it is their (the tours') problem to figure that out if they don't have proper documentation or care to support the fixture manufacturers that did spend the R&D money that the generic fixture just ripped off.

That may sound harsh but I feel that as an industry the more we continue to just "accept" the ripoffs the more power we give to those companies that are buying those fixtures and undermining the original designer/manufacturer.

but maybe that's just me.....
Click to expand...

True but more often than not... I'm the guy that has to "make it work". People bring me lights and tell me what they want it to do. So I for one am very glad that ETC allows the custom profiles.

Judge said:
I continue to be amazed that LX control companies like Avolites, ChamSys etc actually bother making fixture personalities for all these Chinese cheapo lights. Whats in it for them?
Click to expand...

What's in it for them? well, nothing but happy users. That's what makes it awesome! ETC has a legacy of Amazing customer service. They are the only company I would call myself brand loyal to, specifically because they continue to build and develop user-friendly products, even years after they've been released. And like I said, most of these Chinese lights I'm working with, aren't cheap quality... It's becoming more and more common that I see a TD from the road telling me that he prefers the Chinese over name brand because they last just as long if not longer than name brand gear. I had a guy a few months ago tell me the only name brand lights he's keeping are his Vipers, everything else, all his Mac Auras, and Sharpies he replaced with Chinese fixtures, he claims yea price has a lot to do with it, but he tours regularly and he needs his gear to work just as much as the other guy. And he wouldn't be putting his reputation on the line with these fixtures if he didn't have the experience with knowing they work just as well and expensive name brand.

It's really strange to see the kind of quality that's coming out. lol I truly never thought I would ever say anything like that... Now personally I haven't seen quite as good of quality as Clay Paky or Martins, but what I've seen are close enough to consider purchasing.

My hope is that this continues and that it will drive the market price for lighting down all around.
 
JJBerman said:
When a company initially has LED lights in the $2500+ range, adding a family of lights in the $600 to $1200 range is affordable. In this perspective.

Granted $600 is still very steep for many people, but not as bad as $2500+
Click to expand...

This is a good point. It all boils down to perspective.
 
I was one of the very first to start using both Chinese lights" and LED when people were arguing that LED will never ever be used in professional stage lighting. At the time I argued with a lot of people here that LED is that way to go and it eliminates GELS - people laughed. Who's laughing now. I said almost a decade ago now that I use Chinese lights exclusively, pars and moving lights in a commercial setting, again I was laughed at. "What I said back then still holds true today. Even when I was buying " Pro lights" made by the big boys, I would get a 10-20% failure rate. With the Chinese lights I get the same. Back them people argued " what about the warranty and who will fix them" I said I am the warranty, and I don't fix them I throw them away. Think about it, I can buy six or more Chinese moving lights for the price on one from the "big boys" so I don't bother, if one goes down, I toss it immediately, I don't even bother saving it any more for spare parts. Not even worth my time to repair, I simply open a new box and I'm up and running in two minutes. No "big lighting company" can get me up and running in two minutes. Shipping is nearly as good as Amazon. I ordered 18 pars (WITH A ROAD CASE TO FIT ) on a Thursday and it was at my front door on Monday. I have gotten great support from the companies I work with. I was the first person to introduce the Chinese to making uprights with batteries. I still have the first prototype in my shop. I did a test years ago where I did lighting for an airplane hanger event. Half the room I did traditionally with a generator, 600 ft of 50 amp cable, 6 bistro boxes, 2 staff, extension chords, gaffer tape to tape down all the chords, etc.etc. The other half I did with battery op uprights. I took the 18 lights, dropped them where I wanted them, focused them, turned them on and walked away. That took me less than ten minutes, and at show time no one could tell the difference between my help and the "traditional half at strike, the two guys took over and hour to strike, rolling cable pulling tape etc. I took another ten minutes. Do the math 2 guys 10 hour day rate, generator, rented cables, distort, generator, duel, delivery charges. That's profit going out the door in labor and rental. If I did the job 100% I could have put a $1000.00 in my pocket. By the way the blazing bright 1 watt original LED pars I got over a decade ago, are still working just fine at the high school I donated them to of their plays. It really is about economics plain and simple. I can buy the lights from China and get them paid for on the first job they go out on, no one can say that by buying a 7K and above moving light traditionally.
 
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