Control/Dimming PC-based controllers in live setting

[Jwheelz]

Good afternoon all!

When I joined several weeks ago and posted in the new members forum I mentioned I'm interested in getting into lighting design and control. I'm physically disabled and don't have very extensive use of my arms, so consequently I am very reliant on computer-based systems for any kind of professional need in my life. The technology has evolved to a point in the last decade or so where I am confident that I can program and run a show solely off of a computer with a DMX interface. I've been playing around with Chauvet's ShowXpress software and it's good for getting used to the concepts of programming DMX lights, but it seems a bit limited in terms of being able to independently adjust parameters without affecting every channel in terms of controlling things like movement speed and creating movements which can be used in multiple starting positions (not sure if I'm making sense here).

I'm wondering if anyone out there has any suggestions for other PC-based controllers that allow on the fly control in a live setting as my main interest is lighting for music, especially acts which incorporate a great deal of improvisation. I'm going to continue to play around with ShowXpress as it works with a product that is within my price range for when I decide to start building my own rig. I am downloading MAOnPC but the lowest end hardware interface which will work with that is still $1900, which is a pretty sizable investment for someone who isn't sure he's even going to be able to do this professionally.

I welcome everyone's thoughts.

 

[wolfman005]

Right now I use QLC. Originally wanted to use Chamsys Magic Q PC which is probably what you should look into but if Chamsys won't work for ya, QLC is a good program. Kinda quirky at first but if your a fast learner you should have no problems. Overall though, I would say Chamsys is the best PC based program I've run across.

 

[cbrandt]

MAonPC is a nice high end piece of software. If you're looking for a lower price buy in, take a look at the competition.

Martin's M-PC software is activated for one universe for free, accessible through art-net, or an Enttec open dmx module. You can upgrade hardware from there to get more universes. They offer a 2 universe widget for around $500 msrp, but you can find them used for less, and there are a lot of other ways to get more universes out. The enttec modules are cheap, less than $100.

High End's Hog4PC is accessible with a widget. I think yo ucan pick up single universe widgets for around $500.

As previously mentioned, Chamsys' MagicQ is a great choice, with several dongle options for very reasonable prices.

I'm sure our resident Plexus expert will come along and point you to the pluses there. I haven't used it, so I'm not familiar, but I've heard some good things.

It comes down to what you like, and how you like to program. It will also come down to what your clients are expecting, and what is available in your area to expand your system when you need to. All of these programs have free software versions, so take a look and play around with them.

Oh, I almost forgot, Jands' Vista has some very nice software and dongle options, but I think those are little more on the expensive side. I'm not certain about that one, though.

Let us know what features you like, and maybe we can help you narrow it down to what will work best for you.

Glad to see you interested in the area, I hope we can help you out!

 

[wolfman005]

Not to high-jack the thread but when I tried to install M-PC I got a bunch of Java errors. Did a little googleing but there was so much stuff and it just overwhelmed me. Does anyone on here know why I get a error about not being able to run custom content when installing M-PC? I can install other stuff just fine. Running a ASUS with Windows 7 (for now )

 

[Jwheelz]

lots of great posts... I think I have tons of research to do!

I'm looking for a system that allows me a good level of continuous control over the speeds of chases and movements. I'm trying to focus on controllers & software that offer a lot of functionality with moving lights. I want to eventually have a system that I can basically plug into any DMX based rig and set up the addressing and be able to start programming right there.

I also want to be able to have the ability to configure different parameters separately so for example having a number of different movement patterns that can operate independently of the other light settings such as dimmer, shutter, gobo, colors etc. It would also help to have good quality visualizations so I can try out concepts at home before I have a chance to work with equipment in the field. I don't expect to have access to equipment very often at first so I want to be able to make the most of it when I do have those opportunities.

I would also add that I'm very much a beginner right now. I have a pretty good understanding of most basic lighting concepts from years of working with theater productions but I've never actually done it myself due to disability access issues in the past.

 

[JChenault]

I'm sure our resident Plexus expert will come along and point you to the pluses there. I haven't used it, so I'm not familiar, but I've heard some good things.

Did someone call??


I'm not sure how disabled you are - but from your description of wanting to do on the fly live music, you probably want a product that has a lot of buttons you can activate ( Say one to make the lights change color, one to go to a pan tilt effect, another to change the intensity, etc. ).

The standard way to do this would be with a console that lets you have a number of physical buttons or sliders to manipulate. If I am understanding your disability, it sounds like using a mouse to select the buttons would probably work better for you.

This is something that Plexus does pretty well. You can set up a page of buttons and associate each one with a cue that affects as few or many attributes ( panTilt, Intensity, Color, Gobo etc) for as many fixtures as you want. So you could set up a series of buttons to ( say) set your movers on the lead band member, but not change the color. - or one to change the color but not change the focus etc. It is extremely easy to control each set of attributes in a moving light separately.

One thing we do not do as well as the MA OnPC is effects. Compared to that console our effects package is limited. I have seen the MA OnPC and been impressed by That said our product is a lot simpler to learn and use than the MA or Chamsys.

You can download the software and play with it for free.
GAM PLEXUS©
To spit out DMX you will need to buy one of several possible devices. I would probably recommend the Enttec USB-Pro. There are a couple of versions of this from about $150 to $200.
If you want to use the software in a production setting you will need to purchase a security dongle for $800. You can test the software with the Enttec device and no security dongle. When you do this the DMX values will go to 0 for a few seconds every five minutes or so.

Re visualizers. The best way we have delt with this is to get a separate machine to do the emulation and use any of the several products out there that listen to the ArtNet protocol. ( We have had good results with ESP Vision - but any system that listens to ArtNet - and I am not aware of any that do not - should work fine). Using this you can connect your Plexus ( or MA onPC or whatever) to the visualization machine and see what is going on.


How to set up buttons and run the show in club mode ( which is what I think you want to do) is not super clearly explained in the Plexus documentation. If you have questions feel free to shoot me a PM.

 

[jglodeklights]

One of the neat things about Chamsys Magic Q, is the ability to "with time" apply palettes and release playbacks; the initial playback time would be based on the Q(s) placed on the playback which have discrete timing for different heads either entered manually or based on "with time" of palettes included in the programmer. Additionally, it has a programming mode for keyboard shortcuts and another for playback. Set up appropriately using programming shortcuts, a combination of playback activation and palette "with time" activation could allow for some powerful busking. This will require some practice of course.

 

[jhochb]

Good Morning Wolfman

have you installed Martin ONE KEY on your machine.
someone else asked me about not being able to run a Martin program. The Martin tech asked if ONE KEY was installed.
this may be the same issue.

 

[cbrandt]

It would also help to have good quality visualizations so I can try out concepts at home before I have a chance to work with equipment in the field. I don't expect to have access to equipment very often at first so I want to be able to make the most of it when I do have those opportunities.

While the buy in price for MA is pretty daunting, when you include the cost of supporting high quality visualization, it isn't so bad. The fact that MAonPC includes their visualization suite as part of the software is a big plus towards that. I haven't personally seen MagicQ's visualization, but I would assume that it was also pretty good. Other visualization suites, such as ESPVision, WYSIWYG, or Martin Show Designer can get pretty expensive, on top of your hardware requirements for your console.

 

[Jwheelz]

Alright so I've now had the last week to try out some of the various recommendations and suggestions I received in this thread. I was not a fan of MagicQ, it just seemed a little too overdesigned for my needs. I do like Plexus quite a bit, it has a very intuitive interface. I don't have the ability to put together any kind of visualization set up with that yet but once I save up a little bit of money I can start looking into paying for software. I have somewhere a copy of WYSIWYG but I don't know if it's a recent version or not. Either way I lack a second computer to mess around with that stuff on but I'm sure I'll figure that out somehow.

I was able to get MA lighting's download server to cooperate so now I have grandma2 onPC. I like the system quite a bit but I have a sneaking suspicion my laptop is not quite up to snuff for that one. I have a dual core 2 GHz processor, 3 gigs of RAM, Windows 7, and DirectX 11. But where I fall short is in the video department, I have the higher end video option for my model but it's still just integrated I don't think it's actually a separate video card (the joys of a gifted PC). As a result onPC basically crashes every few seconds. It worked fine for about ten minutes until I started playing around with the Windows and tried to drag one of the virtual screens to my secondary monitor. Since then it hasn't been quite the same even with a reinstall. So if my suspicions are correct I don't believe I'll be working with onPC until I can afford a system upgrade.

 

[Catwalker]

American DJ's MyDMX software is a solid system, has a lot of abilities and is fairly intuitive.

 

[James Feenstra]

Oh, I almost forgot, Jands' Vista has some very nice software and dongle options, but I think those are little more on the expensive side. I'm not certain about that one, though.

The main cost with Jands is how many channels you want to use, a small system (128 ch) with artnet output can run well under $1000

AC would be happy to give you a demo of the Jands' consoles/software. Please feel free to contact our sales team; [email protected]

 

[Bubby4j]

American DJ's MyDMX software is a solid system, has a lot of abilities and is fairly intuitive.

I agree that it's fairly solid, but I find it very very limiting. You can only run 1 cue at a time.

If you want to be able to have a set of cues with just color, and then another set with intensities, and another set with focus positions, you can't. Only 1 cue can be active at a time, and it must control every light.

The learning curve is non-existent though. It is ultra simple.