Stage layout of electrics

[Gumby]

I have recently been moved into the estimating department of my company and have sooooo much to learn!

Does anyone know of a source for software or templates with terminology for the typical layout of stage electrics?

I'm still on a learning curve here and it's tough to take out time for teaching/learning with our workload so I'm learning the hard way...................any suggestions would be awesome guys !

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I'm not sure what you mean by typical layout of stage electrics? How many circuits? Which way to label them? How far apart? How many dimmed, relay, and work light circuits? Every project I do is unique, starting with basic width and depth of stage, rigging restrictions, type of rigging (Prodigy suggests multiple of 6 circuits up to 24); whether the electrics are fixed or made up for each show, skill level of users. and so much more. I can only imagine you're faced with projects with no one really knowledgeable of what happens on a stage and you have neither the time nor resources to do the proper design work of working with the likely users of the space to see what they have done and what they expect to do. Most of all I can't imagine a formula or algorithm that can do this from scratch.

 

[Gumby]

I'm not sure what you mean by typical layout of stage electrics? How many circuits? Which way to label them? How far apart? How many dimmed, relay, and work light circuits? Every project I do is unique, starting with basic width and depth of stage, rigging restrictions, type of rigging (Prodigy suggests multiple of 6 circuits up to 24); whether the electrics are fixed or made up for each show, skill level of users. and so much more. I can only imagine you're faced with projects with no one really knowledgeable of what happens on a stage and you have neither the time nor resources to do the proper design work of working with the likely users of the space to see what they have done and what they expect to do. Most of all I can't imagine a formula or algorithm that can do this from scratch.

hey bill ....thanks for the reply.........your points are well taken as to the individual complexities of each stage. I think what I'm talking about is so much more basic than actual desgining of a good working stage. I'm really talking basic locations and terminology for a typical stage...........no formula or algorithms! I do have an experienced guy here with me ..........our schedule is just too crazy to take out good quality time.

 

[josh88]

Still not sure if this is what you mean, but JR Clancy will send you free copies of these posters with areas labeled and explained. Can't read them here but its got lots of the basic parts of a system.
http://www.jrclancy.com/freebies.asp

 

[Gumby]

Still not sure if this is what you mean, but JR Clancy will send you free copies of these posters with areas labeled and explained. Can't read them here but its got lots of the basic parts of a system.
http://www.jrclancy.com/freebies.asp
View attachment 13183

Thanks...........I ordered the set and yes this will help.............Like I mentioned (I think) I have been working in the field for 20 years but the manufacturing and testing of dimming and controls so the layout of a stage is still pretty new. Thank you both for any advice........it's all good..........

 

[RickR]

Past projects at your firm is probably your best guide. Otherwise, take a look at the ordering sheets for connector strips, your own and competitors.

• Traditionally numbering starts at FOH farthest out HR to HL, proceeds upstage and then moves to floor pockets.
  
• Don't number so it looks good on paper but is not logical on stage; back to front, floor then electrics, odd/even on sides (I've seen some weird stuff) Think about how an LD or ME would direct others.
  
• Don't arrange outlets on circuits to match a lighting style; McCandless, Center- out, 4 point...
• Don't put house light circuits first.
• The first electric is always the most used and crowded.
• Ends of electrics often get crowded too. Think high sides and ladders.
  
• Each electric gets a non-dim with many outlets to make low wattage LEDs need less cabling.
• Beware of the connection box needing lots of space. Shifting everything 2' to one side is a pain.

I'm sure others can add to this.

 

[icewolf08]

* Any wall boxes or floor pockets should have multiples of 6 circuited with corresponding parallel female socapex connectors.

* personally, I like raceways with pigtails rather than panel mount connectors.

* run Cat5e (or better) to every lighting position terminated in female ethercon. Also include runs to the dimmer room, tech table positions, proscenium walls both left and right, the booth, as well as possibly the lighting office. All cat5e should be home run to an enterprise class POE switch. For that matter, almost envy location you run cat5, you might as well pull 2 for double gang boxes.

* don't forget than any permanent vertical position on the deck level (apron booms, proscenium booms) should get dedicated circuits or a raceway. I lament every show that I don't have this.

* in addition to any dedicated flying electrics, I would include 10 six-circuit drop boxes fed from the grid. It is inevitable that lights will end up needing to be hung on non-dedicated electrics.

* depending on e size of the venue and follow spot requirements, you may want to make sure that there is 208v available at spot positions. You may also want 208v available on lighting positions if the venue will be using moving lights.

 

[SteveB]

*

* in addition to any dedicated flying electrics, I would include 10 six-circuit drop boxes fed from the grid. It is inevitable that lights will end up needing to be hung on non-dedicated electrics.
.

I prefer Soca breakouts over drop boxes, especially if trying to feed thru the grid steel. Boxes sometimes are too big. They are also much more maintanence intensive

- Pay attention to power needs for LED's. Power up inrush current is starting to rear its ugly head and requires some thoughts as to maybe not powering with standard relays that can all power on at the push of a button, but maybe want sequential powering.

 

[icewolf08]

I prefer Soca breakouts over drop boxes, especially if trying to feed thru the grid steel. Boxes sometimes are too big. They are also much more maintanence intensive

I meant to add that part, or at least I thought about it.

 

[RonHebbard]

* Any wall boxes or floor pockets should have multiples of 6 circuited with corresponding parallel female socapex connectors.

* personally, I like raceways with pigtails rather than panel mount connectors.

* run Cat5e (or better) to every lighting position terminated in female ethercon. Also include runs to the dimmer room, tech table positions, proscenium walls both left and right, the booth, as well as possibly the lighting office. All cat5e should be home run to an enterprise class POE switch. For that matter, almost envy location you run cat5, you might as well pull 2 for double gang boxes.

* don't forget than any permanent vertical position on the deck level (apron booms, proscenium booms) should get dedicated circuits or a raceway. I lament every show that I don't have this.

* in addition to any dedicated flying electrics, I would include 10 six-circuit drop boxes fed from the grid. It is inevitable that lights will end up needing to be hung on non-dedicated electrics.

* depending on e size of the venue and follow spot requirements, you may want to make sure that there is 208v available at spot positions. You may also want 208v available on lighting positions if the venue will be using moving lights.

Hello;
Definitely agreeing with raceways with tails in preference to panel mount connectors. In the last theatre I had a hand in, I spec'd the FOH catwalk tails so they hung just shy of hitting the floors, in this case approximately 6'0". This meant the female connectors weren't being bashed on catwalk floors when dropped and having this extra length on the tails saved GREATLY on the quantity of short cables required to circuit up a cove. Personally, in a roadhouse, I'm against dedicated electrics pipes. I'm very much in favor of 6 circuit, Socapex, and 12 circuit, Pyle National, multi cables and breakouts, with both equi-length and staggered length tails, typically staggered at multiples of 18".
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I don't disagree with the previous specific recommendations but they seem to be suited for a road house or larger university facility, more than the common high school auditorium and stage. The former is likely to have professional designers involved in the planning. The majority of high schools, which make up the overwhelming majority of lighting systems by number installed in the US, do not have such planning expertise. These are the ones that an architect or engineer turns to a dealer, such as the OP, to lay out. They generally must be must more "modest" and basic than systems with drop boxes (considering most have no grid or overhead, and a lot no rigging) and can't afford soca pex, etc. It also feels that many of these suggestions are based on conventional systems with many dimmed circuits. In my high school work, 40 or so in last 20-15 years, dimmed circuits have vanished. It's all relay controlled circuits and data. Laying one out now with just fixed circuits - no relay - and using all Colorsource or similar products with the Colorsource relays. May use wireless so there is no infrastructure beyond branch circuits. And not many - 42 I think - one standard panel.